Robert Leonard (00:03:04):

Where did your passion for books and reading come from?

Alex Wieckowski (00:03:07):

I have to credit one of my college professors and he was my management professor. And up until that time, I didn’t really enjoy reading books because I had a couple bad experiences, middle school, high school, where you’re kind of forced to read books and you read all these “classic books” that no one actually enjoys or no one actually finds fun in reading them. And then my management professor, he recommended us to read this book How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. And up until that point, I had never read a self-improvement, self-help book. It was only textbooks, poetry, and some classic fiction books. And so I was really blown away by … There’s this book that could teach us social skills, which is something I really wanted to work on. I grew up very shy and introverted. And also this book is like 100 years old. And not only were we reading that book in class, we would actually practice each chapter.

Alex Wieckowski (00:03:56):

So we would get assigned two to three chapters every week and then not only would we have to discuss what we learned, but we’d actually practice. So we’d work on being interested instead of interesting. Making eye contact with other people. And just discovering that there’s this whole genre of self improvement books really kind of blew my mind because if you wanted to learn social skills from a book, here’s your answer. And it’s like, what else can I learn from books? And the answer was anything. So I read books about dating and relationships to improve my dating life. I read books about investing and financial independence to improve how much money I made. And just for any area in life that I wanted to improve on there was a book that I could just read and basically absorb the knowledge and apply it just to basically update my character status in life. And so since that point, I’ve just been reading books and haven’t stopped since.

Robert Leonard (00:04:51):

What do you do for a day to day? Is Alex & Books your full-time gig? Do you have a full-time job? What does that look like?

Alex Wieckowski (00:04:57):

Yeah. I’m happy to share that. Recently, Alex & Books has become my full-time job. I work with a lot of authors, I work with publishers, and I also work with brands to help promote their products. And so really fortunate that it’s a full-time job now.

Robert Leonard (00:05:11):

What were you doing before you did this full time?

Alex Wieckowski (00:05:13):

I worked at Podcast Notes. So we would take notes on a lot of nonfiction or self improvement podcasts. So everything from Tim Ferris, Joe Rogan, My First Million. So kind of similar area where I’m the type person who enjoys constantly learning and Podcast Notes was a great place to do that and really fortunate to work there.

Robert Leonard (00:05:35):

One of the places I want to start our conversation about reading is by actually talking about quitting reading, which is kind of a funny place to start, but this idea is near and dear to my heart because I was always someone who needed to finish a book once I started it. I think it was my OCD that forced me to read every single word on every single page of every single book that I started. And I thought there might be some golden nugget hiding on one of those pages that I might have missed if I didn’t do that. Then recently I read the Almanac of Naval Ravikant and in that book, Naval advocated for quitting books, which I had heard before but finally just this time it spoke to me and I’ve been doing that lately. Talk to us a bit about why you think people should quit more books and when the right time is to drop a book you’re reading.

Alex Wieckowski (00:06:24):

Yeah, for sure. And this is a bad habit a lot of people picked up from school where it’s like, you’re assigned the book to read and you have to force yourself to read it because you know there’s going to be an exam or a pop quiz on it and if you don’t read it, you might fail that class. And people kind of carry this bad habit with them over even though it’s been five or 10 years since they got out of high school or college. So you have to understand in the real world, there’s no one forcing you to read any books. Just because you started a book doesn’t mean you have to continue reading it if it’s not a great fit for you. And I find it really funny that people watch a Netflix show or a TV show and they’re feeling it 10, 20 minutes in they’ll just drop it and watch something else.

Alex Wieckowski (00:07:01):

But for some reason with books, they’re like, “Oh, I started this book so I have to finish it.” But the thing is, when you buy a book, it’s like you’re buying the opportunity to read it and if it’s not for you, it’s not a contract. There’s no one forcing you. You don’t have to continue reading it. And the truth is that there’s millions of wonderful books out there. Every year alone there’s like two million books published. So chances are, there’s way better books out there that you could be reading and it’d be a lot better for you to spend your time reading books you actually enjoy instead of forcing yourself to read a book you’re not. And so two simple tips or strategies you could use to determine to quit a book, one, I call just the 10% rule.

Alex Wieckowski (00:07:37):

So if a book this 250 pages, just read the first 25 pages and think of it like when you go to Costco. It’s like you want to sample something before you buy the whole thing. Similar with books. You want to sample the book before you commit to it. And reading 10% of it would give you a decent amount of taste and you can make a decision if you want to continue reading it or not. And another rule I have is the three strikes role, which is one I personally follow. So you want to read the introduction, the first chapter, and if you’re still not in love with the book by then, look at table contents and see if there’s a chapter later on in the book that you might find interesting where you might think there might be some golden nuggets. And if you read that chapter and still nothing really strikes you and you’re not really in love with the book, just put it down, quit it. Just like in baseball it’s three strikes and you’re out, same thing with a book. Three chapters. If there’s no gold nuggets in there, just put it down and pick up something new because there’s so many other wonderful books out there waiting for you.

Robert Leonard (00:08:34):

I’ve heard some people say that all the quality of books is right at the beginning and then at the end, towards the last couple pages. So do you think it’s worthwhile maybe if somebody wants to just read the beginning and the end and skip all the fluff in the middle?

Alex Wieckowski (00:08:47):

For sure. Authors, if you think about when they write a book, they spent most of the time in the beginning of it. The very first sentence they might rewrite a hundred or a thousand times and they kind of front load all the value in the book in the very beginning. And you notice this with a lot of nonfiction books, towards the end, like last two chapters of the book, they already shared the main point and now they’re running out of ideas and they’re just putting in more examples and more of the fluff part of the book. So if you’re not finding the value in the beginning of the book where the author spent most of their time working on, the chances of you finding a gold nugget later on in the book is close to zero.

Robert Leonard (00:09:21):

Yeah. From my experience, they usually teach the main couple concepts and then they just provide example after example after example to back that up throughout the rest of the book.

Alex Wieckowski (00:09:32):

If you feel like you got the main point of the book and you don’t need another example or another dozen examples, then it’s okay to either skip it or just kind of put the books down because you already got the lesson from it so that’s another option too.

Robert Leonard (00:09:44):

One of the most common excuses people have for not reading more is that they don’t have enough time, which I completely get because I often find myself not having enough time too. How can people find more time to read books?

Alex Wieckowski (00:09:58):

A lot of people think of it as finding time. I think of it more like replacing time because all of us only have 24 hours in a day. So it’s not like any of us have more time than other people. So what you really want to do is identify where you’re spending that time and figure out what activities you could either replace with reading or maybe add reading to. So a simple one to add reading to is if you work out, go to the gym or you go for a jog, just put on your headphones and listen to audiobooks during that time and multitask. You can also listen to the audiobook while you’re driving if you’re commuting to work. Or if you take a train or a bus or something, you could read an ebook and that way you’re multitasking and finding ways you could add reading to your schedule.

Alex Wieckowski (00:10:36):

And then the other way you could do is you can just … Just like how when you have a meeting, you know hey, at this time, at this date, I have a meeting with this person and that’s the only thing I’m going to be doing for 30 minutes. You can kind of schedule a reading time with yourself, which I call the book o’clock. So for me it was always 11:00 PM. So 11:00 PM, put my phone on airplane mode, turn off the wifi, and that’s all I’m doing at 11:00 PM for half an hour, an hour, which is just reading books. And another great tip, I have a snack and a meal book. Just like how you vary your appetite, sometimes you just want something small to eat, other times you want steak, potatoes and broccoli. You want a full meal.

Alex Wieckowski (00:11:17):

You should kind of think of your reading diet the same way. You want to have a small book. It could be a quote book or just a very light read that you picked up, even if you’re tired. And then you want a meal book. Something more full of substance. It could be a philosophy book or a very in depth nonfiction like a psychology book. This would be something that you would read maybe on the weekend when you have a lot more energy and you really want to dive into a book. So it really helps to vary your reading options and adjust what you’re reading based on how much energy you have.

Robert Leonard (00:11:46):

Do you think listening to audio books are as good as reading actual books, whether it be ebook or physical books?

Alex Wieckowski (00:11:53):

Well, all forms of reading I consider reading, but each book medium has their pros and cons. So audiobook are great because can multitasks, you can listen to them while running or working out, which you can’t do with the physical book. But with the physical book, it is a lot easier to take notes, highlight it, write in it. So I think it just depends on your lifestyle and what you prefer doing.

Robert Leonard (00:12:13):

What I’ve seen some people talk about is when you read a physical book, it’s not only what you’re learning, but it’s also the act of actually reading. Like reading as a skill and comprehension of things you’ve read is a little bit different than just listening to an audio form and comprehending it that way. So I’ve always wondered, whether you listen to an audio book or a physical book and read it, you’re going to get the same content. It’s just, I think there’s a different skill in terms of listening and reading.

Alex Wieckowski (00:12:40):

Oh yeah, for sure. I think Naval had a great quote where he said, “Audio books are kind of like drinking your veggies while physical books are like eating your veggies.” So you could think of it that way. So the form of deliverance is different, but as long as you’re absorbing that content and still at the end of the day you’re learning and getting the information you’re looking for, I think either form of consumption is good.

Robert Leonard (00:13:04):

Other than just listening to audio books maybe on one and a half or two X speed, how else can we read any book in just one week?

Alex Wieckowski (00:13:13):

Yeah. I posted a TikTok video that went viral recently. So it’s a pretty simple method. You just grab your book, you turn to the last page. So let’s say a book has 210 pages, like your typical nonfiction book. And you just get a couple post-it notes, seven to be exact, and you just write down every day in the week. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And then you just divide the total amount of pages by seven and you would get 30 pages. And then you put a post-it note on every 30 pages in the book and that way you know exactly how many pages to read each day to finish the book in one week. So this works for books of all different mediums. Of course, if a book is 700 pages and you have to read 100 pages each day it might be a little bit harder. But it’s a very simple tactic anyone could use, especially for nonfiction books which tend to be shorter. And it’s also a great way to mark your progress. So when it comes to Wednesday or Thursday you should be about halfway done with the book. And it’s just a pretty cool way just to have a visual marker of how much you should be reading and how much progress you’re making.

Robert Leonard (00:14:18):

And if you’re doing the strategy that we talked about a little bit earlier, where you may not read every word in the book, or you might skip around a little bit, or you might skip some of the middle, the kind of fluff, then that could help you go through that book much quicker and get through most books in a week.

Alex Wieckowski (00:14:33):

Yeah, for sure. People always talk about speeding and how to be a speed reader. The truth is if you read a lot of books, you’ll end up speed reading because you’ll have read this information in other books. So a common thing is the marshmallow test that almost every psychology book talks about. So if you see that marshmallow test chapter in a book, you know oh, I could skip this chapter because I already learned about it before. And the more you read, the more easier it will be to read other books on that same subject because you already have background information and background knowledge about it.

Robert Leonard (00:15:04):

I want to talk a bit about speed reading because it’s something that’s interested me for a while, because to be completely honest, I am a very slow reader and if I try to read too fast I have horrible comprehension. And I love to read. I read a lot. But I’m a very slow reader. And so the idea of speed reading has really interested me. I even have a couple books on my Kindle about it and I haven’t read them yet. And I don’t really know a ton about speed reading. I just know that it’s probably some sort of strategy that helps you do it faster and that’s always interested me because I’m so slow. So if you could, tell me exactly what is speed reading and then talk to us a bit about some of the strategies and how people use it to get through more books.

Alex Wieckowski (00:15:44):

I think too many people look at speed reading as the one ultimate hack. Like if I just learn how to speed read, that’s my solution for reading more books. But you have to realize it’s like anything in life, there are trade offs. So just imagine when you watch a movie, you don’t watch it at two X speed. You can do that and you get through the movie faster, but you also miss a lot of the smaller details in it. Like the Easter eggs. It wouldn’t be as enjoyable watching it at double speed. And it’s the same thing for books. Maybe if you need to study for an exam and just find certain information quickly, that might be a good opportunity to speed read. But if you’re trying to do it for enjoyment, I wouldn’t recommend it.

Alex Wieckowski (00:16:23):

And also like you said, it’s harder to comprehend a book if you’re trying to just get through it as fast as possible. It’s also harder to enjoy. And the other thing is when you’re reading and it’s a really great book, it’s pretty much impossible to speed read because … Well, you can speed read, but you can’t speed understand or speed think. Think about the last time you read a really great book and you came across a quote or sentence. When you read that quote or sentence, it really makes you stop, think, put the book down and just like stare into the distance because you have to take a few seconds to comprehend what just read and kind of just absorb it. So it is possible to speed read. You just basically take your finger and your eyes follow the motion of your finger faster than your eyes would follow without it. Like we mentioned, it’s not as enjoyable.

Alex Wieckowski (00:17:06):

And when you come across a passage that’s really important and valuable, you’re going to have to stop, think, comprehend it. And also you want to be taking notes while reading. So I think too many people see it like a get rich quick scheme. Like if I just do this one thing, overnight that will transform my life, which isn’t true. Really the best way we speed read is read a lot of books and you kind of naturally, just like any other habit, improve on it and become a faster reader. And also the more books you read, the background information and already knowledge you’ll have. So that way, if you see repetitive information, you can just skip through or just skim through it because you already know what that book will teach you.

Robert Leonard (00:17:46):

There’s tons of times when I’m reading books that I’ll read something, and like I said, I read slow, so I’ll read it and then I’ll get a couple sentences and I’m like, “Wait a second. That was so good.” And I have to go back and I reread it and I’m like, “Oh, that was so good.” And I’m just like, if I tried to speed read through this, I was going slow and I barely like caught it so if I was speed reading, I probably would not catch this at all. And sometimes they’re the really important, most memorable things I take from a book.

Alex Wieckowski (00:18:11):

You could think of speed reading as kind of like rollerblading through a museum. Yes, you’ll get through it faster, but you won’t enjoy the art. You won’t really remember what you saw. You’re just cramming information into your head and it’s just going to go in one ear and out the other. So yeah, just like anything in life it has its pros and cons.

Robert Leonard (00:18:31):

Do you think of listening to audio books on 1.5 speed or two speed or two X speed or even podcasts at that speed, do you think that is similar to speed reading? And again, similar to the question previously, this is kind of near and dear to my heart because I was the person who would brag about how many books that I would read and I’d read 50 or 60 in a year. And that was mostly on audible because I had a one hour commute each way to work. So about two hours a day in the car. So I’d listen to it on two X speed. And what I realized was that I was not comprehending, I wasn’t remembering, and most importantly I wasn’t taking any action on anything that I was reading. So I forced myself to stop doing that. And I actually made a New Year’s resolution a few years ago that I wasn’t allowed to read any new books. I could only go back and reread books that I had already read. Tell us is speed reading kind of like two X speed on audio books? And then why aren’t people who read 60 books a year as smart as they make think and why is this a bad strategy?

Alex Wieckowski (00:19:34):

Well, let’s answer your first question. There are some people that are just naturally comfortable with listening a little bit faster. Like I’ll listen to 1.25 or 1.5. But there is a point of diminishing returns where it does get too quick and you’re just going too fast. Just some people walk faster than other people, some people are able to listen to a book faster than other people. But yeah, if it gets to the point where it’s uncomfortable or it’s just not enjoyable to listen to a book, you should probably stop and tone it down. And yeah, like you mentioned, there isn’t a prize for reading as many books as possible. I shared a tweet once that I read three books in one week and no one congratulated me or anything.

Alex Wieckowski (00:20:14):

And the truth is no one cares how many books you read because the people that do usually don’t read books because the people that do read a lot of books know that the answer isn’t reading as many books as possible, the answer is applying as many books as possible. And if you notice something, the people that read 60 plus books a year, like you, myself, usually reading is part of the job. They’re either a writer, a researcher, an author, a podcaster, an editor or something else where … Or a book influencer where your job is literally to read books all day and do something with them. So people really shouldn’t be impressed by someone that reads 60 or 100 books a year. And I know people personally that have read a thousand plus books and they’re not super successful in life.

Alex Wieckowski (00:20:58):

They just spend all their free time reading books. So you want to think of the amount of books someone read more as a vanity metric where people kind of say it to impress other people. And instead of counting how many books you read this year, a better metric would be how many books changed your life? Or how many books can you look back on and say, “Oh yeah, I read this book and I made this change to my life and now it’s like so much better.”? And so instead of reading to impress other people, you want to read to improve your situation in life. And that’s why the amount of books that you get through isn’t important. It’s how many books get through you and have an impact on your life and that’s what counts

Robert Leonard (00:21:36):

Reading books is this interesting thing where it is such a vanity metric, but it’s also one of these things where just by doing it you do learn some knowledge, but you don’t really gain … Knowledge is important, but it’s only one piece of the equation. Action is really so much more important. And so just by reading a book, if you don’t do anything else other than just read the book, you’re not really going to be any further along. I think there’s a quote about this. But if you don’t do anything from it, then you’re no better off than somebody that didn’t read that book really. And there are some things in life that you could just kind of go through and you’ll get the benefit of. Like working out, right? If you go to workout and as long as you do the workout, you’re going to get the benefits, even if you don’t do anything after that. You’ll still get the benefits.

Robert Leonard (00:22:16):

But if you just go through a book really fast, you’re not going to get any of the benefits if you don’t actually take action on it. So what are some of the action things that people can do after reading books? Should they maybe set a goal like I need to act on at least one thing I read in this book before I can start my next book or I need to have … For me, I create a summary page after every book that I read now and jot down all my favorite personal notes that I have from it. But what are some other things that people can do when reading books?

Alex Wieckowski (00:22:43):

What I like to do at the end of each book after I finish it, write down main takeaways. So what are the most important like lessons I learned from it? But then also think about how can I like apply these lessons to improve my life? So like you said, even if you just apply one thing from a book and make an improvement in your life. The book Tiny Habits really got me to start flossing more. The book Discipline Equals Freedom really got me working out more. The book Can’t Hurt Me got me running and jogging more. And so yeah, after you read a book … It’s like you mentioned, it doesn’t matter how many books you read about weightlifting, if you never go work out you’re not going to see any improvements or changes in your body.

Alex Wieckowski (00:23:21):

It’s great to have information, but you don’t want to spend too much time reading and not enough time applying. You want to read a book and then it’s like, okay, this person suggests this, this, and this. Let me try it out, let me see what works and let me see what sticks. So you should, after you finish a book, write down two to three things of how you could apply the lessons you learned and then actually go out and do it. Make those changes in your life. And that’s really the most difficult part of reading. Because people say sitting down and opening a book, that’s the hard part, but if it’s really a great book, you’re going to read it pretty easily. The hard part is actually making changes in your life. Changing your daily habits, trying something new, doing something you’re scared of doing. That’s where the real work and the hard part of reading books is. It’s not the book itself. It’s after you finish the book that that’s when the hard work starts.

Robert Leonard (00:24:11):

I’ve never really thought of it this way. But I wonder if that’s why some people don’t read is because they know … Reading’s maybe not that hard to them and maybe they even enjoy it, but they know if they read it, then they’re going to feel inclined to take action and they’re going to be inclined to change something in their lives. And that’s hard. And maybe they don’t want to do that hard work. And maybe that’s why they don’t read.

Alex Wieckowski (00:24:30):

Yeah, for sure. I think including myself, once you learn something new and you look back on your life and be like, “Wow, I can’t believe I was making that same mistake over and over again.” And it kind of hurts to think, how many other mistakes were you making in life? And this is what Jordan Peterson talks about 12 rules for life that most people are like dead wood. And you have to burn off that dead wood to become a new person. You have to break off your bad habits. You have to create new ones. You have to look back on your past and realize like, “Oh, I made a lot of mistakes and there’s a lot of room for improvement here.” And that also hurts your ego. And Ryan Holiday talks about this and Ego Is The Enemy. Your biggest enemy is actually yourself and your ego.

Alex Wieckowski (00:25:08):

So yeah, reading shows us how many mistakes we’re making in life, how much room there is for improvement, and how much more potential we have, which is also kind of scary to think about because then you start thinking, “How much time I have I wasted?” And this is one of the reasons I read so much is because I wish I started reading earlier in life because I can’t imagine how much better my life would be if I started reading and applying books earlier. And it is a scary thought. And I think if I have this thought, I’m sure a lot of people have it too.

Robert Leonard (00:25:37):

And if you don’t do what you just learned, then you might feel worse about having not taken that action. You think about how much time you’ve wasted, but then on the other side, something comes up and you don’t actually do what you just read and then you start to feel bad that you’re not … You know that you should be doing it and you’re not doing it so then you kind of feel bad about it.

Alex Wieckowski (00:25:55):

Yeah. Yeah. It’s one thing when it’s ignorance and bliss and you don’t know what the better decision is. But if you just read a book about the better habit of exercising in the morning and drinking more water and then you don’t do it, it hurts twice as much. So yeah, there is that but trust me, when you read a book and you actually apply it and then you have those improvements in your life, then you’re going to be super grateful to have read that book and then you’re going to want to recommend it to every person you know.

Robert Leonard (00:26:20):

Everyone has probably heard of that quote, don’t judge a book by its cover, but invariably people still do. And in today’s world, at least for me, a more accurate quote is probably don’t judge a book by its Amazon reviews. That’s almost exclusively how I pick my books. If I see a lot of good reviews on Amazon, I’ll read it. And if there are a lot of bad reviews or no reviews at all, I don’t even usually give it a chance. I’ve been working on this lately, but that’s how I’ve been for years. How do we go about finding and filtering amazing books?

Alex Wieckowski (00:26:55):

So yeah, you have a good strategy there. And just to talk a little bit more about the Amazon reviews, you really want to ignore the five star reviews, because those are from super fans or friends and family members and people who just love the author and will give the book five stars just because they’re a fan of the writer. And then you want to also ignore the one star reviews because that’s people like, “Oh, my book came in damaged,” or ,”I received the wrong book,” or the different edition or something like that. So on both sides of the spectrum, you want to ignore the five star and then one star. What you really want to look at is mostly the two, three and four star ones and the people that take the time to write a paragraph or two of what they actually thought about the book. That’s when you get the honest reviews where people are sharing not only the pros, but the cons, who this book is for. And that’s a great way to filter what you’re reading.

Alex Wieckowski (00:27:42):

And then also I have a strategy called the two C’s. You want to look for books to either cure a problem you’re having or satisfy your curiosity about a topic. Because most books fall into either one of those two categories. So if you’re having a problem or you want to build better habits or break bad ones, books like Atomic Habits or Tiny Habits is great for you. If you want to satisfy your curiosity about something, think of a topic you’re really interested in. It could be Elon Musk or his life. Then you would read Elon Musk by Ashlee Vance. And so you really want to think to yourself, “What books could cure a problem I’m having or what books could satisfy my curiosity about a topic? And then once you know know what you’re looking for, then you can start looking into specific books. And just to go even deeper into that, when it comes to books that solve a problem you’re facing, a great thing to think about is read it when you need it.

Alex Wieckowski (00:28:39):

So the more relevant a book is to your current situation, the more engaged you’ll be and the more applicable it’ll be and the sooner you could make changes in your life. When I first started my reading journey I made a lot of mistakes and one of them was reading a lot of management books, even though I was an intern because I thought one day I wanted to be a CMO or CEO and run a big company and manage a lot of people. So I thought to myself, let me read a lot of management books to prepare for that future role, which was very ambitious of me. And it was great that I was reading, but I was an intern. I couldn’t apply any of the management books. I had zero people to manage.

Alex Wieckowski (00:29:15):

And so although I was reading, which was great, my time would’ve been better spent reading more marketing books and learning how to learn more about marketing and maybe eventually getting promoted to a marketing position or a marketing manager within a few years. So yeah, when it comes to books, remember read it when you need it. And when you read something that’s more relevant to your situation, you’ll be more engaged in it. And then the sooner you can apply it, the sooner you can make changes and improvements in your life.

Robert Leonard (00:29:44):

It sounds like you go even deeper on reviews on Amazon than I do, because I literally just looked at the number of Amazon reviews and that was it. If it had 50 reviews, I probably wouldn’t even consider it. But if it had 5,000, then I’d be like … I mean, usually books with that many ratings, there are going to be like 4.5 stars or something. Usually you don’t find books are super lowly rated with that many reviews. So typically for me, it was more just the number of reviews than anything. Have you found there to be a review count where, more than 50 reviews, people should consider the book or less than 50, they shouldn’t consider it, something like that?

Alex Wieckowski (00:30:22):

Yes. In terms of just proof of quality reviews, once you get some authors there are services where you could buy Amazon reviews, this and that. But if a book has over a thousand reviews, I say that’s a pretty good sign that it has a good distribution of what the book actually is, like the quality of the book. But also people should remember that no one book is for every person. There are books that have 50,000 or 15,000 reviews or five star reviews, but just because it has that many reviews doesn’t mean it’s a good match for you. It could mean it’s a great book, it’s well written, but it might just not be applicable to your situation. There’s books about parenting or real estate that have thousands of reviews and great books, but because I’m not a parent or a real estate investor, they’re just not applicable to my situation so I shouldn’t read them, even though they are great books. So it’s not just the quality of writing or how credible the author is. It’s like, is this book relevant to me? If so, I should read it. If not, it’s a great book for someone else, but it’s just not for me.

Robert Leonard (00:31:27):

That’s such a great point. And there’s a book for everybody that’s listening. We are on a real estate show so pretty much everybody listening has heard of this book and you probably have as well, Alex. It’s called Rich Dad Poor Dad. And it’s the bible of real estate investing, essentially. Everybody that’s in real estate has read this book. And I don’t know how many Amazon reviews it has or what it’s rated, but my guess would be it’s probably very, very high. And for me, I don’t really love it. It just didn’t really speak to me. And it’s not that it’s a bad book. It’s just not really one of my favorite books and everybody … A lot of people that go on real estate podcasts and are asked what’s their favorite book, a lot of times they say Rich Dad Poor Dad. And just for me, it just didn’t really … I don’t know. It just didn’t really click for me I guess. And so I think that’s a great thing that you brought up. It makes so much sense.

Alex Wieckowski (00:32:13):

Yeah. And that’s totally fine. Just like how there are Academy Award winning, Oscar winning movies that people just didn’t enjoy. And I can name a bunch of classic movies that I just personally didn’t enjoy and same thing with books. There will be these amazing, fantastic, 15,000 five star books that you just may not enjoy. And that’s totally fine. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad book. It just means maybe you already had that knowledge before from life experiences or from other books. That’s why it’s so hard to recommend life changing books because the books that changed my life might not exactly change your life or the books that changed your life may not change mine. So just important to realize that everyone is different and just because one person didn’t like a book doesn’t mean you won’t like it. That book might end up changing your life so give every book a chance or at least go into it with an open mind.

Robert Leonard (00:33:05):

It’s funny that you mentioned the movies because maybe I’m odd here, but a lot of times the award-winning movies, some of them are good and I like, but most of the time I don’t actually like those movies at all. And then some of my favorite movies, I go on Rotten Tomatoes and they’re horribly rated movies and they would never get nominated for these big prestigious awards. So it’s just kind of … You never know really, I guess. And I’ve actually had some people that are very successful that are close to me that I get to speak with frequently and they’ve been recommending to me books on Amazon that have 10, 20, 30, 40 reviews. And I tell them, I’m like, “Yeah, I’ll read it because it came recommended from you. But if it hadn’t, I would’ve never considered this book simply just because it doesn’t have that many reviews.”

Alex Wieckowski (00:33:49):

Yeah. That’s the other thing. There’s something like 33 million books published out there. So there have to be hundreds if not thousands of books that are hidden gems that are wonderful that just may and gotten the marketing they deserve. Maybe it’s a new author and they wrote a great book, but it takes the long time for word of mouth to get around. But great thing you mentioned, if someone you admire or look up to recommends you a book, chances are you should read it because you probably have a similar personality or similar experiences. And that’s another great to find books you want to enjoy reading. If there’s an author you love, you want to read other books by them because most authors stick to their niche. You think of Ryan Holiday. If you love Ego Is The Enemy, you’ll love his other books like Stillness Is The Key or The Daily Stoic because all of them relate to stoicism. And also if you’re a fan Ryan Holiday, you also want to see what books changed his life. And then if he shares his life changing books on his website and he mentions Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, other books by Seneca and the other Stoics. And again, it’s a similar niche. It’s all stoicism all the way through. So yeah, if there’s an author you love, see what books changed their life and chances are you’ll enjoy them as well.

Robert Leonard (00:35:01):

Since I have always just looked for the most highly rated or the most number of reviews on Amazon, I had heard somebody … I forget where I heard it. It might have been read it on Twitter or on a podcast or something. But somebody said that if you’re only reading the most pop … It might have even been Naval actually. If you’re only reading the most popular books that have the most reviews, then you’re thinking the same as everybody else that has also read those books and so you’re not going to be able to differentiate yourself and you’re not going to think differently if you’re continuing to read the same thing as everybody else. And when I heard that, I was like, wow. That really opened my mind to, I need to read some of these books that might not have as many reviews, because maybe not as many people have read it. Maybe there’s something in there that can differentiate me.

Alex Wieckowski (00:35:40):

That’s definitely something I think about a lot. Because on one hand the average person only reads four books a year or something like that. There’s so many best selling books out there that I still even personally haven’t read that I want to read, that the fact that most people don’t read that many books, it’s hard to say just because there’s a best selling book, everyone knows about it. If you think a book like Mark Manson’s book, The Subtle Art, that book did phenomenally well, but only sold 16 million copies. But 16 million copies in the book world is the top 000.1%. But if you think about it, 16 million copies, there’s 18 billion people in the world that. That’s a tiny fraction know people that have actually read that book and know what it’s about.

Alex Wieckowski (00:36:19):

It is on one hand, yeah, if you read only best selling books, you’ll be thinking a similar way as other people, but also there’s a reason these books are bestsellers. Because they’re packed information and you know it’s going to be a good investment on your time. And then if you do want to go the other way and be different, then just follow your personal curiosity. See where it leads. Like I’m fascinated with learning how to develop the habit of reading and I read a lot of books about books. That’s my go-to thing. If you’re into real estate, get really specific in your niche. Maybe you’re really into [inaudible 00:36:54] houses and just fixing them up in certain states or certain parts of the country. Just follow your own curiosity, see where it leads you. And then you’ll just be a very unique person and have a unique vault of information.

Robert Leonard (00:37:09):

And I mean really the reality is those 16 million people that have purchased the book, how many of them have actually read it and understand and comprehend and then act on it really? I mean, I have no idea. If I said any number, I’d be completely making it up, but it’s significantly smaller than 16 million.

Alex Wieckowski (00:37:24):

Yeah. That’s also another thing about … Barely any book sells over a million copies and if it does, a million people out of 8 billion, that’s like … You could round it down to zero basically. So even the best selling books, 99.9% of people haven’t read. So just reading that bestselling book will put you way ahead of everyone out there.

Robert Leonard (00:37:43):

While we’re on this topic, what are some of the most underrated books that you’ve read or heard about that not many people are aware of? What are some of the hidden gems that somebody who studies books for a living knows about that maybe people listening don’t?

Alex Wieckowski (00:37:58):

There’s a great book, A Calendar of Wisdom by Leo Tolstoy. A lot of people know Tolstoy for his fiction books like War and Peace, Anna Karenina, but this actually his nonfiction book. And it’s very similar to The Daily Stoic where it’s like each day there’s certain quotes from philosophers, from writers, quotes from Leo himself. And it’s just a great book that you could read one page at a time and just very philosophical really makes you think about life. And is kind of one of those books that no one knows about even though Tolstoy said it was his greatest contribution to humankind because he spent, I think it was something like 14 years just collecting quotes and doing research and putting it together. So that was an incredible book.

Alex Wieckowski (00:38:39):

A more recent book that I really enjoyed is called Die With Zero by Bill Perkins. A lot of people talk about becoming financially independent and saving up money. He talks about the opposite, which is spending money. Like how do you best spend your money to optimize is for happiness? So he talks about what are practical ways to actually buy happiness. So one would be hiring services like cleaning where it takes away tasks you don’t enjoy doing. Another is buying experiences. Because experiences make you happier more in the long term than a product like a handbag or something like that. And he just talks about how to optimize your wealth in such a way that you look back on your life and be like, “Wow, I’m so happy I’m not 85 years old with $10 million. Instead, I actually spent that money in my youth. Had a whole bunch of great experiences. I gave that money to people that needed it.” And it’s just how do you optimize your money for maximum happiness? And if that sounds interesting to you, I highly recommend that book.

Robert Leonard (00:39:40):

That’s a book that I’ve heard about quite a few times from people, but it doesn’t have a lot of reviews on Amazon. And that’s not why I haven’t read it. It’s just, I haven’t gotten to it. But I do really want to read that book because I’ve heard a lot of really good things about it. And I know Alex, you’re not necessarily in the finance space, but people listening … And you might find this interesting as well but I heard the other day, this guy talk about this concept of when you pass away, you typically leave money in your will to your friends and family that … People you care about. And they can’t do anything with that until you’re gone. And he talked about … And maybe it comes from this book. I’m not sure. But he talked about this concept of how … Like can I just give you some money now while I’m still alive?

Robert Leonard (00:40:22):

Instead of waiting till I die, can I just give you some money now? And that was … I didn’t read that. It was on a podcast. But it was almost that same idea that I mentioned before where I had to go back and reread the quote. I rewinded this podcast and I went and re-listened to it because I was just like, that’s such a powerful thing to me at least is why not give back to the people that you’re going to give to anyway while you’re alive and experience the joy and happiness you’re going to get from that.

Alex Wieckowski (00:40:44):

Yeah, for sure. And yeah, Bill mentions it in this book. There’s no point in waiting until … Let’s say you’re 60 or 70 years old and your parents pass away at like 90 or something and that’s when they give you the money. It’s like, by the time you’re 60, you’re already almost retired. You have a house. You already paid for the kids’ college and done all of that. It’d be way better, for instance, I’m in my mid 20s, if my parents gave me money now so I could buy a house and do more traveling before I have kids or maybe save up money for a wedding, this and that than giving me the funds when I’m close to retirement age. So yeah, he really talks about how to optimize your money and all these traditional ways people spend their money or give money to others that aren’t as efficient.

Robert Leonard (00:41:27):

I’ll put a link to those two books that you mentioned in the show notes for anybody that’s interested in checking it out. And one of the things you mentioned is that there’s a book that you read page by page. And that made me think of The Daily Stoic. And I wonder from somebody who studies books, is that a type of book … And it’s pretty popular so I think a lot of people listening are familiar with it. And I’ve always wondered how do you read this? Do you read it one page at a time? Do you read a couple pages at a time? I know they have dates on them. Do you read them on that date? How do you go about that?

Alex Wieckowski (00:41:56):

Yes. I think a book like The Daily Stoic is great because, like you said, it’s one page a day. So even if you have a super busy life, it’s hard to make an excuse to say, “Oh, I didn’t have time to read one page today.” How busy can you be? Even Elon Musk finds time to read books throughout the year. If he could do it, so can you. These one page a day books are great to start a reading habit. And yeah, you have two options. Sometimes The Daily Stoic, I read a great page and it’s like, oh, I want to see what’s going to happen on the next page. And you just end up reading a week or two. Then other times it’s like, yeah, let me just pull it out, do my daily one page a day and then put it back and go to it tomorrow. And especially a book like The Daily Stoic, very, very philosophical. And it makes you stop, think, and actually reflect and maybe even, like you mentioned, apply and make changes in your life. So that would be the optimal way to do it. Read one page, understand it, and figure out, okay, based on this new information, how can I make small change in my life today?

Robert Leonard (00:42:56):

When we talked earlier about finishing books, you mentioned that that was a bad habit that people learn from school. What are some of the other bad reading habits that people need to unlearn from school?

Alex Wieckowski (00:43:08):

Although school did a great job of teaching us how to read, it didn’t do a great job of teaching us how to love reading. So one we mentioned before was how to actually find and filter for books you’ll actually enjoy. School didn’t teach us that. Experimenting with different book mediums. In school you don’t really have the option of an ebook or an audiobook. So you might actually … I know a lot of people that hated reading in school but they love listening to audiobooks. And even if you like physical books, like I did myself, I always hated that school gave you a mass market copy, where it was yellow, it was tiny font, the pages were ripped and falling out. Today, I treat myself by buying a brand new hardcover book.

Alex Wieckowski (00:43:48):

And I just love reading so much more because the book doesn’t smell, it has a nice cover, the pages are all nice. And so just experiment with different book mediums. See what works with you. Another thing, like we mentioned earlier, be okay with quitting a book. Sample the book. There’s no pop quiz. You don’t have to force yourself to read. And then also in school you’re not allowed to write and highlight in books because the book’s not yours and you’re going to have to share with other students. And that’s also a bad habit. You do want to be engaged with your book. If you see a great quote or an insight or some actionable advice, you want to highlight it, you want to mark it, you want to write in your book what are the main lessons I learned from it, how can I apply these lessons. And yeah, school did a great job of teaching us how to read, but not how to be lifelong readers. And that’s also why I’ve been working on teaching people.

Robert Leonard (00:44:37):

When we were talking about speed reading, you briefly mentioned taking notes on books and that’s one of the reasons why speed reading’s tough. So I want to dive into taking notes when you’re reading a bit. I know you recently posted on Twitter about your process for taking notes while reading a book so walk us through that nine step framework that you’ve created.

Alex Wieckowski (00:44:56):

The first thing you want to do is hopefully you’re buying your book so that way you can write and highlight in it. So the first thing you want to do when you open up the first cover of the book, you want to write down your name and the date you’re starting the book. You want to write your name because you never know if you might forget your book somewhere and that way you could say, oh yeah, this is my book. And also you want to write down the date so that way in the future, you can look back on this book and be like, “Oh yeah, I can see how my life changed when I read this book.” And also if you read a book multiple times, you kind of want to know when was the last time I read this book and also you want to know like, hey, how long does this book take me to read?

Alex Wieckowski (00:45:30):

So that way you could also measure your reading speed over the months or the years. And so as you start reading the book, you want to highlight and mark up any quotes or lines or sentences that really make you stop and think, because that means it’s new information and you want to remember it to go back to it later. So let’s say there’s great quote on page eight of a book. You want to go back to the front cover of the book and write down page eight in parentheses and then add context to it. So why did you highlight this? Because you don’t want to have a book just filled with highlights but no context because then you forget why it was important.

Alex Wieckowski (00:46:10):

So let’s just say, “Page eight. Great quote from Ben Franklin. Might use for a future article.” Or, “Would make for a great tweet.” Or something just where you add context to it. So as you go through the book and you’re highlighting and writing down notes, you’ll end up on the front cover of the book with a table of contents. But the thing is it’s like your own personal table of contents where it’s what information and insights that you found personally valuable. And so as you’re going throughout the book at the end of each chapter or couple of chapters, you also want to write down, “Okay, I spent half an hour, an hour reading. What were the main lessons I learned?” Just refresh your memory and not just … Like we mentioned throughout this podcast, you don’t want to just be reading, you want to be comprehending and understanding.

Alex Wieckowski (00:46:55):

So a great way to do that is at the end of your reading session, just write down, “Okay. Here are the top three takeaways I learned.” And so as you go out through the book, you’ll end up with a huge table contents of important information you find valuable. Every few chapters you’ll have key takeaways. So that way you’re documenting what you’re learning and then on the back cover of the book, once you finish it, you want to write down the most important lessons you learned from that book. So that way you filter down the information to be like, “Okay, so what are the top three to five most important lessons I took away from this book?” And on the other back side of the book, you want to figure out how can I turn these key takeaways into actionable advice?

Alex Wieckowski (00:47:37):

So if you learn … Like from Atomic Habits, if you learned that you want to change your environment to make good habits easier and bad habits harder, one way to apply that if you want to drink more water is to leave more water bottles around the house or don’t buy soda or just put the soda in the back of the fridge and just think about, “Okay, I have these key takeaways. How can I actually apply this advice to my life?” So if you look at any of the books I have, on the back left side of the book it’ll be the key takeaways, and on the back right side of the book, it’ll be ways that I’m working on applying the information. Then also once you finish a book, you want to write your name and the date you finished it. That way you could see how long it took you to write the book.

Alex Wieckowski (00:48:20):

And then another thing you could do is write down what books this book reminded you of. So that way you’re connecting information. Like this book was similar … Atomic Habits is similar to of Tiny Habits or The Power of Habit. That way you create a mental map of just similar books. And if anyone ever asks you for a recommendation, it’s like, “Hey, I love this book. Do you have any other books you recommend for?” You could just turn to that back page and see, “Oh yeah, I recommend this book and this book.” So that’s just a simple way to take notes while you’re reading a book.

Robert Leonard (00:48:52):

I’ve always been a pretty big note taker while I read books for the most part, other than audiobooks. And it sounds like I need to get a little bit more structured. I like a lot of the things that you just talked through. I’m going to have to go back and … Or not go back. But when I read future books, I’m going to have to add that to my process when I do it. And you also mentioned at the beginning, you got to buy these books of course, instead of renting them from a library or something like that in order to do this. And that made me think of a rule that I heard from Ramit Sethi. And he basically has this rule as part of what he calls his rich life. That if he ever thinks that he wants a book, he buys it. That’s his one rule. If he ever sees a book that he’s like, “Eh, do I want this? Can I afford it?” Or whatever the case is. Should I really buy this right now? He’s like, “I buy it.” That’s just part of his rule. Do you have any similar rules to that?

Alex Wieckowski (00:49:38):

Yeah. Naval Ravikant and Ryan Holiday say the same thing. Books are the best investment you can make, because for $10 it could potentially change your life. So I have a similar rule. Whenever there’s a book I find interesting, I’ll buy it. And then if it’s not for me or it might be a great book but just not a match for me, I’ll just do a giveaway for it. And I’m also very fortunate to get a lot of books from publishers. So that’s one perk of being a big book influencer. You get a lot of free books. But yeah, I think just for the average person, if you think there’s a chance this book … You find it interesting and you think potentially you could learn a couple things from it, definitely go and buy it. It’s crazy to me that people think $15 for a cocktail is a great deal and they buy three or four on a Friday night, but a $15 book, they’ll think twice about buying it. So definitely look at books as an investment, not as an expense.

Robert Leonard (00:50:34):

That’s such a good analogy. And I don’t drink specifically for that reason. It’s not something that fulfills me really and I don’t think it’s worth the money in my personal opinion. So I do think it’s kind of crazy that people are willing to spend money on that kind of thing but not invest in books. It’s a great analogy. And we’ve been talking throughout this podcast about how good books are. And I think books are great. You think books are great. But I’ve had this kind of interesting thought lately that I want to run by you and just hear your thoughts on it. And basically what I was thinking was there are audiobook narrators and editors, I guess, of books who read … Let’s just take one category, but there’s maybe a narrator that’s read a thousand self-help books or business books combined throughout their career as part of their job yet they’re still a narrator, right?

Robert Leonard (00:51:21):

They’re making maybe $25 to $50 an hour. They’re not some successful billionaire. They’re not Elon Musk. And it’s made me ponder, are books actually going to be a resource that lead to success for people? And so I was just kind of going through this and I’m like, maybe it’s because these people that are reading it as part of their job are just, like what we talked about earlier, just speed reading it. They’re not paying attention to what they’re learning. They’re not implementing it. What are your thoughts on this general idea?

Alex Wieckowski (00:51:49):

Yeah. Books increase your chance of becoming successful, but there is a point where it’s not really the act of reading itself. It’s the act of like understanding what the book is saying and then like we talked about throughout the podcast of application. I have this tweet that said application over memorization. And that’s like, you don’t want to memorize books. People always ask me how do I remember more of what I read. It’s like, would you rather memorize Atomic Habits or Rich Dad Poor Dad and just be able to recite it by heart or would you rather have applied what that book said, be able to understand what that book is teaching you and actually go out and make changes in your life? And for me personally, I prefer application or memorization. And I think some people do spend too much time reading or maybe just going through the motions like, “Oh, I read one book. Yeah, it was cool. Let me just hop into the next book.”

Alex Wieckowski (00:52:39):

Instead of like, “Hey, okay, what are the main lessons I learned from this book and then how can I actually apply them to improve my life?” So like we mentioned, reading is only step one and it’s actually the easy step if you think about it. The hard step is actually applying it, making changes in your life. And that’s what people really have to work on. So if you’re reading 100 books or even 75 plus books a year and it’s not part of your job, it’s like, stop. You’re reading way too much. You’ve got to stop reading as much because you’re really just … You could think of it as intellectual procrastination. And that’s something I dealt with earlier my life where I was reading one book after another after another and I was just procrastinating taking action through just reading more. And you really want to stop reading so many books and start figuring out ways to applying those lessons you’re learning to make changes in your life.

Robert Leonard (00:53:25):

Another thing that just popped in my head as we’ve been having this conversation that I had never even thought of is if you don’t go from book to book, you run the risk of somebody asking you what are you reading and not having anything to say. And for me, maybe that could not feel great because you’re like, “Oh, I’m not reading.” And then you wonder what does that person think of you because you’re not reading. And this is going to depend on the circle you’re in, your friends who you surround yourself with. But I surround myself with pretty successful people and a lot of times successful people are readers. And so if somebody that I look up to is successful and I talk to them and they’re like, “Oh, what are you reading?”, and I was just like, “Oh, I’m not reading anything.”, then I might just feel bad. And so maybe that’s partially subconsciously why I’ve just gone from book to book. But now I’m thinking maybe instead of just saying what book I’m reading, I could just say, “Oh, I’m not reading anything, but I’m really diving into this book that I just finished reading and I’m really implementing it.” And maybe that person would appreciate that even more than me just saying what book I’m reading.

Alex Wieckowski (00:54:23):

Yeah, for sure. So you could always say, “Oh, I recently finish this book and I’m working on applying it or making changes to my life.” Or you could even say, “Oh, this book I recently read was so good I’m actually rereading it.” And I think that’s a lot more impressive because then it’s like how many people talk about the books that are so good it’s worth rereading? If someone says they watched a movie 10 times, it’s like, “Oh, I got to watch that movie.” It’s the same thing for books. I read Atomic Habits three times. That’s why I always recommend it to people because I’ve gone through it multiple times and each time I go through it it’s value, value, value. And yes, you could just say, “Oh, I’m actually rereading this book. That’s how good it is.” And I think they’ll find that equally, if not more impressive than, “Oh yeah, started this new book.”

Robert Leonard (00:55:04):

One of the biggest things we’ve talked about today is taking action on what we’re reading, not just skimming through and going through as many books as we can. And so today people have access to podcasts, blogs, YouTube and other mediums. And so when we talked about that, we were really talking about taking action and really just getting forms of education. What I just mentioned are all different mediums of education and things that people could take action on. How do you compare these to books? Are they different types of quality? If somebody’s going to take action on a YouTube video, why is that not as good maybe, or maybe it is, to taking action on a book they read?

Alex Wieckowski (00:55:47):

Well, I think it all comes down to all three, books, YouTube videos, podcasts. If they like nonfiction or self improvement type work, it comes down to education. And as long as you’re educating yourself, the medium in which it comes through is perfectly fine. And I listen to podcasts all the time. I love it. And it’s also a great way to find new books. Instead of buying a new book and seeing if I like it, I’ll listen to the author talk about it on a podcast and it’s like, “Oh yeah, I really enjoyed it. Let me dive deeper into it through the book.” And so that’s one way you kind of filter your reading selection. But also yeah, yeah, podcasts are great. YouTube videos are great. They’re free, which does have an advantage over books. And yeah, as long as you’re educating yourself and you’re applying that information, it’s great.

Alex Wieckowski (00:56:31):

The one advantage books have is that they go through … Especially traditional books. They go through a series of multiple filters. Anyone can make a YouTube channel. Anyone could start a podcast. But with a book you have to go through editors fact checkers hopefully. And the person that’s investing all that time … Usually a year or two of time is invested to make that book. So the amount of value that’s condensed in it is enormous. Versus a podcast where you just hit record and it’s just two people talking or a YouTube video where it might be just someone made it in half an hour or something. So you do have that Lindy effect in books where the amount of time people spent working on it is compressed so that means the value in it is a lot more jampacked. And you also know it’s a lot more in depth. So each form of consumption has a pros and cons but I think as long as you’re educating yourself and applying it, I think it’s wonderful.

Robert Leonard (00:57:23):

That’s a really good point that you make. That barrier of entry to a medium makes it so that the minimum quality … Because you can have some really, really good quality podcasts, but because the barrier of entry is lower, the … I would say that the barrier to entry being lower in different mediums makes the minimum quality that you could have in that at medium lower. So on a podcast you might have some super high quality podcasts that are better than some of the books but I think if you look on average, the lowest quality books are probably higher quality than the lowest podcasts or YouTube videos or things like that. So that’s a really interesting idea.

Robert Leonard (00:58:00):

I have a couple other kind of less broad questions that I want to ask you just as somebody who studies books. And these are, again, vanity metrics that we talked about before and it’s not so much for saying, oh, you’ve read 1,000 books as being amazed by that. It’s more just, I’m kind of curious, and I’m sure people listening are, is like somebody who reads books for a living, what do they do on a day to day basis? So how many books do you read? How would you classify that? Do you read one a week? Do you read a couple a month? How do you classify that?

Alex Wieckowski (00:58:34):

The short answer is this year I’ve read 73. So probably by the end of the year, maybe 75, 76 books. The long answer or disclaimer is well, it depends on the book length. Because there are some short nonfiction books like The Dip or The Tribe by Seth Godin which are a hundred pages or the book Lying by Sam Harris, fantastic book. I think it’s 70 pages. So they’re super short books. There’s also really long books like Tools of Titans or Tribe of Mentors by Tim Ferris that are like 700 pages. Jordan Peterson’s new book, I read and loved it. And it was something like 300, 400 pages. So that’s another reason vanity metrics of how many books you read aren’t the great measure. Because maybe some person just reads kids books which are like 10, 15 pages and you can say you read a hundred of those and it’s like, “Wow, that’s so impressive. You read a hundred books.” Until you tell them it’s a hundred kids books or something. But yeah, I focus on nonfiction books so they could be anywhere from … Let’s say the shortest one this year, probably 50 or 70 pages, the longest one closer to 450, 500 pages. But yeah, in general, usually read maybe one or two books a week.

Robert Leonard (00:59:41):

How many books do you own?

Alex Wieckowski (00:59:43):

Probably close to 400 or 500. But every end of the year, I go through my library to see what books aren’t applicable or what books just aren’t for me anymore and then I’ll just do a giveaway. So I’ve given away also probably close to 500 or books or something like that.

Robert Leonard (01:00:02):

I know this is kind of a funny question, but for anybody listening that has ever moved with that many books or even a significant amount of books, 50 or 100 books, they know that moving with books can be a pain. So have you ever moved with books and if you have, do you have any tips for moving with all those books?

Alex Wieckowski (01:00:19):

Fortunately I haven’t moved with all the books, so I can’t say, but I do worry about the date maybe in a year or two when I buy a house and move out, how much packing and bubble wrap and everything I’m going to need to protect them.

Robert Leonard (01:00:31):

I can tell you I’ve moved. I have about 300 books and I’ve moved a couple times and it is not fun. I always am not very excited to pack all the books. The other question is as somebody like me, I own probably between 250 and 300 and I always wonder, how should I organize my books? How do you organize your books?

Alex Wieckowski (01:00:51):

I recommend organizing it very similar in a way like you see in a bar. So the top shelf, you want to have the best stuff and you also want to organize it by genre. So if you look on my bookcase, it’s productivity, psychology, writing, Navy Seals, memoirs or biographies, self-improvement books, creativity books. So that way you kind of organize it by genre. So then it’s like, oh maybe if something comes up in my relationship that I want to review or work on it’s like, let me go to the relationship/dating genre. Or it’s like, oh, if I want to build a new habit or I’ve been feeling kind of lazy, let me go to the productivity or self improvement genre. And that way you have your books organized and it’s a lot easier to define what you need versus organizing them alphabetically where you have to remember the title. Or if you want aesthetically purposes, you could organize it by color. But I don’t recommend that unless you’re doing a photo shoot or something like that.

Robert Leonard (01:01:52):

Before we give a hand off to where people can find you, I like to wrap up the show by turning the tables and letting the guest ask me a question. So Alex, what question do you have for me?

Alex Wieckowski (01:02:04):

I would want to know what one or two books had the biggest impact on your life as a young adult and how did those books change you?

Robert Leonard (01:02:12):

I think my favorite book, probably the most impactful book that I’ve ever read is probably the Almanac of Naval. And I just read that. I read it on audio book probably a month or two ago and it was good. I really liked it. But with an audio book, I was driving and I wasn’t really fully paying attention so I went back and I actually reread the text, the physical book. And I really, really liked it. I think it’s probably my favorite book of all time. And it was just a couple weeks ago that I finished it so I haven’t implemented everything yet that I’ve read in there. So I wouldn’t say it’s had the most impact on me yet just because it’s been so new. But I think just generally speaking, that is probably my favorite book.

Alex Wieckowski (01:02:55):

Yeah. Fantastic book. Yeah. Naval on Twitter and his book is just incredible. Yeah. Highly recommend that book to people as well.

Robert Leonard (01:03:04):

And one of the best pieces is if you don’t have a lot of money, you can get the book for free. You can purchase it as well but it is in audio. I believe audio, physical. Or the only one that’s not free is physical. I think ebook is free. I think audio is free as well. So just go right on the website and get it for free. I’ll put a link to that in the show notes.

Robert Leonard (01:03:21):

Alex, where can everybody in the audience go to connect with you? I know everybody listening is interested in real estate and we’ve talked a lot about books today, but if you take what you have learned in today’s episode and apply it to real estate books that you’re reading or business books or any type of book that can help your real estate business, you’re going to be successful. One of those guys that you want to learn from is Alex on how to read. And so tell people, Alex, where everybody can go to find you.

Alex Wieckowski (01:03:46):

You can search for Alex & Books on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, YouTube. You could also go to alexandbooks.com, which you just find everything going on. And then I also have a podcast called The Reader’s Journey podcast where I interview authors who’ve written amazing books and kind of just do a deep dive into sharing the most important lessons and how to apply those lessons. So yeah, just search for Alex & Books and you’ll find me on the web.

Robert Leonard (01:04:10):

I’ll be sure to also put links to Alex’s resources in the show notes below for anybody that’s interested in checking them out. Alex, thanks so much for joining me. It’s been a lot of fun.

Alex Wieckowski (01:04:19):

Thanks so much for having me, Robert. Always enjoy talking to about books and really enjoyed this conversation.

Robert Leonard (01:04:23):

All right guys. That’s all I had for this week’s episode of Real Estate Investing. I’ll see you again next week.

Outro (01:04:29):

Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Every Wednesday we teach you about Bitcoin and every Saturday we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts, or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decision consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.