Robert Leonard (02:39):

A common question I get from people is whether or not they should attend school, finished school, or some variation of that question regarding college. I think you have an interesting perspective because you actually dropped out of college, but then you ultimately went back. So tell us what made you drop out and then tell us about your decision to go back.

Hala Taha (02:59):

When I was a junior in college, I got an internship at HOT97 and I started off in the corporate side as just a regular intern. I did such a standout job that they then were like, “You know what? We want you to be in the studio area.” And at the time, only 15 people were allowed, it was like where all the celebrities were, it’s where all the action was, it was in the studio area and it was a big deal for anyone to get that opportunity. So once they did that, I had to kind of work full-time at the station. I was still an intern working for free, but I saw it as like, “Oh my gosh, this is my chance to become the next huge personality.” Essentially the next Angie Martinez. So I’m going to take this opportunity and decided that I’m just going to cut the cord and go full steam ahead, give it my 100%, and decided that I couldn’t do school at the same time, even though I was completely working for free.

Hala Taha (03:47):

At the time, I was a really bad undergrad student, I had a 2.3 GPA. All I cared about was cheerleading, sorority, being the lead of plays. I was really active and had a lot of experiences and I was smart, but I didn’t go to class. I would cut class, I just wasn’t mature enough to be ready for school. So I think the number one thing to realize is that everybody’s timelines are different. When I was 18 years old, I think I had the maturity of a 15-year-old, if I could just be honest. And I don’t think I was really ready to be on my own in college and do well and use that investment in the right way. When I went back to school after I didn’t get this dream job at HOT97, I worked there for free for three years, I essentially got fired because I stood up for myself for not getting paid for three years.

Hala Taha (04:35):

And then I was like, “You know what? I’m going to go back to school.” At that point, I was way more mature and I got straight A’s since then. Then I went on to get my MBA, I got a 4.0. So it was just my maturity was different. And I think that I took it way more seriously and appreciated the opportunity more once I was a little bit older and realized what money was worth and what hard work looked like and just was ready for school essentially.

Robert Leonard (05:04):

When did you realize that you wanted to start building side hustles and was it just from your college business blog that you had, or was it not until later? Was that just kind of something you did as a passion project, you didn’t really think of it as a side hustle and you didn’t realize this till later?

Hala Taha (05:19):

When I started my blog, I considered myself to be an entrepreneur. Side hustles weren’t really a thing back then. This was 2010-ish. So side hustles wasn’t a buzzword yet. I was like, “I’m starting a blog site. This is the new big thing.” And to me, I was an entrepreneur. I graduated college, then I started this blog. I ended up having 50 female bloggers under me. We would host parties, concerts, we had radio shows, we would monetize with the blog with our events. And I considered myself to actually just be an entrepreneur because side hustles weren’t really a thing. But in terms of my entrepreneurial spirit, I always had that. I was always a very hardworking kid. I always had a lemonade stand and then I would be at the parks and sell slushies when I was younger and bracelets. And I always had some sort of scheme of selling something, that skill of being a seller and being innovative and not being scared to kind of pitch an idea is something that I’ve been kind of born with I think, it’s been in my spirit for a long time.

Robert Leonard (06:21):

Knowing where you are today, how do you differentiate between entrepreneurship or being an entrepreneur and a side hustle?

Hala Taha (06:29):

I think the clear thing is, do you get a paycheck from somebody else where you have to sit somewhere from nine to five, right? If that’s the case, then you have a side hustle. I think my real side hustle experience was starting YAP Media. So just to backtrack a little bit, I started this blog site, it was huge. I was hosting parties with the DJs. I had people like Soulja Boy and Chris Brown on my radio shows when I was doing that blog, I almost got a show on MTV, I was the lead, they filmed me all summer. We didn’t end up getting that show and I ended up shutting down that blog site. Then I went into corporate, I got a 4.0 and I started working at Hewlett-Packard and then Disney Streaming Services.

Hala Taha (07:11):

At Disney Streaming Services when I was there, my last year I started something called YAP Media. I had already started my podcast. It was growing pretty significantly. I was already a top 10 how-to podcast and everything like that, but I started this agency and that’s what I considered to be an actual side hustle. I was working full-time at Disney and I started another business that was generating revenue on the side. And to me, that is what a side hustle is when you’re actually working full-time somewhere else, and in your mornings, your nights, your weekends, you’re working on another project. So 10, 20 hours a week. And that’s what I would consider a side hustle, but it was still a business. A side hustle is basically your entryway into entrepreneurship.

Hala Taha (07:50):

So by the time I left Disney Streaming, about six months after launching my business, I already had two full-time U.S. employees. I already had 30 plus contractors around the world who worked for me and a handful of high-profile clients and probably generating already a million dollars in revenue over the year. And I was still working at Disney, and then finally I quit my job. So I basically built it up to a point where there was like zero risk, and I was going to get paid the same amount or more than Disney was paying for me by the time that I left. So I did it in a really low-risk way.

Robert Leonard (08:23):

Why did you decide to shut down the blog site?

Hala Taha (08:26):

I decided to shut down the block safe because I felt like it was very hard to monetize the blog efficiently. And I also felt like the blog boom was kind of slowing down. So my blog site was between 2010 and 2013, and that was the height of blogs. And then they started just kind of dying down. And then the other reason why is because I was young and I was the president of the sorority of hip hop and I had 50 female bloggers under me. And I had all these young girls and I was young myself who were banking on me being their pathway to financial freedom and success. And it was all on my back, and to me, it was just so much pressure and I wanted to just be successful on my own. I felt like I can’t help everybody be successful without being successful myself.

Hala Taha (09:13):

And there were just too many mouths to feed. We would make money in an event and then I’d have to split it between five main girls, and then also split it between the other girls. It was just too many mouths to feed and I wasn’t ready yet. I didn’t have an MBA. I didn’t have enough business experience. At that point, all I had was my experience at HOT97 and my college education, which like I said, the first three years, I didn’t even go to school. So I was just learning everything on my own, and I did hone a lot of social media and digital marketing skills that I still use today, but I wasn’t quite ready yet to be the impactful leader and entrepreneur that I think I am today.

Robert Leonard (09:49):

When you were working at Disney full-time you had a pretty big side hustle as you mentioned, how did you manage your time? How did you balance those two things while maintaining the other aspects of your life like health, fitness, those types of things, how did you balance it all?

Hala Taha (10:03):

Just for full context, I was still working out all the time. I had a boyfriend and I was still making dinner every night. So I still had a life on top of everything else. And really, it was just lots of sacrifices. I don’t watch TV, I still don’t watch TV, I never turned the TV on unless I’m watching a movie and it’s date night. All my time is used pretty productively and lots of multitasking. So for example, I am one of the biggest influencers on LinkedIn and I literally grew my LinkedIn following on my commute to work. So I used to live in Brooklyn, Disney was in Manhattan, I would be taking a 45-minute train ride, and every day I would write my LinkedIn post of the day. And on the way home, I would do all my common engagement. So even my train commute was used strategically.

Hala Taha (10:50):

If I had an interview, I used to have to take interviews at lunch while I was working at Disney. I literally didn’t even … I was still doing my podcast and had huge guests on my podcast at that time and was still working at Disney. So I would like run to a phone booth, we didn’t even have office space that I could really secure. And I would basically have a phone booth that I would call for the day and squat in essentially all day so that I’d have a quiet space for my interview. And then I’d have two minutes to set up my equipment, do this interview. And I would be studying on the train, listening to other interviews, or just preparing my notes for my interviews. I would wake up early, I’d have to be on the train by 7:00, I’d be up at 6:00, at least an hour in the morning working on my stuff. And then at night, I would be working from 7:00 to midnight, almost every night. Maybe I’d have two hours to work out and cook dinner and then I would be working again.

Hala Taha (11:42):

So I don’t think it was the healthiest thing, but what I want people to realize is that everyone can find 10 to 20 hours in their week to work on their side hustle. And if you decide that you want to do 20 hours a week, you’re going to get to your goal a lot faster, but you can take it as slow or fast as you want it. So for me, I built something massive very quickly and that’s because I was like, “You know what? I’m going to go all in. I’m going to not watch TV. I’m going to sacrifice and not do all the fun things that I could possibly be doing right now so that I can just work on this and build this and live out my dream.” Every weekend, I would work at least four hours on Saturday and Sunday, at a minimum if not all day like a full working day, Saturday and Sunday.

Hala Taha (12:25):

And that really helped me get ahead. And even when I just had my podcast, I was working that hard because the podcast itself was a side hustle at first too. So I was really used to this. For three whole years, I had a side hustle and a significant podcast that I was managing. And then again, the other key is building a team. I did not do it on my own. By episode two, I had my first volunteer who’s now my business partner, Timothy Tan. By episode eight, I had 10 volunteers and a Slack channel.

Hala Taha (12:52):

What I would do is just basically I had graphic design skills, I had video editing skills, I had social media skills, I had podcast production skills. I had all the knowledge to run this and would just train people who wanted to learn from me. They were usually fans, really big, super fans of my podcast who would reach out, “I just want to help in any way.” So one guy did my website and one guy did my videos and one guy did my social, and I would essentially create the template and then they would help me scale and repeat. So this whole time, while I was … I think the only reason why I was able to build this as a side hustle while working an executive job is because I had the skills to motivate and recruit a volunteer team. I didn’t pay them until we started the agency.

Robert Leonard (13:36):

How did you think about that piece of not paying them? Because you mentioned in your story that you worked for three years without pay. So do you think that that influenced how your relationship was with them?

Hala Taha (13:46):

Yeah, 100%. I have so much experience in creating volunteers because first of all, I was an intern at Hot97 and I was the queen intern who would train all the interns. So that’s who I was at Hot97. Then I started my blog site and I had 50 female bloggers under me, most of them “volunteers/interns”, they would get college credit to do this blog and write blogs for me. And then I was president of my alumni association at [NJIT 00:14:13], then I had more volunteers. I was president of the Young Employee Network at HP, I had more volunteers.

Hala Taha (14:17):

So I had so much experience by the time I started my podcast and my agency on how to recruit and motivate volunteers. And most of the time, it’s just being mutually beneficial. So the fact that I had all this knowledge and knew how to teach people and could give them the experiences that they wanted and the community and sense of purpose that they wanted. And I was able to kind of connect those dots and keep everybody motivated. And it’s funny, I think my team has such great company culture, we’re so happy, but honestly, when we were volunteers, it was the most happy, fun, stress-free experience because when there’s no clients or real hard deadlines, it’s a lot more fun to just work on something. So I’ve just got a knack for recruiting and training volunteers. And I think that’s really, really helped me get ahead and maximize everything that I’m doing.

Robert Leonard (15:08):

You mentioned that you recently made the leap into full-time entrepreneurship from leaving your job at Disney. I actually made the same leap also this year, how did you know you were ready to leave the corporate world? Was it really just that revenue and income figure or was it something else?

Hala Taha (15:24):

It was a multiple of things because when I was in corporate and I’ve had my podcast, I literally thought that my podcast would always be a hobby. And I thought that I would always make money being in corporate. And I really thought that my trajectory was to be the CEO or CMO of some Fortune 50 company, and I really thought that that was my future. And I almost never even thought about having another business, but everything happened so organically and I couldn’t deny it. It was the perfect storm and almost felt like kind of everything fell in my lap. So what happened was, is I had this big podcast called Young and Profiting, like I mentioned earlier. We were top 10 how-to podcast. We were getting a lot of sponsors.

Hala Taha (16:08):

I was one of the biggest influencers on LinkedIn and people would come on my show, bestselling author, celebrities, CEOs, and they’d always ask me the same question. They’d say, “Who does your marketing?” And I’d be like, “Yeah, I do my marketing. This is what I do for my career. I work at Disney. I’ve got a great team of volunteers. We’re just doing this for fun.” I had good intentions. I thought that I was just there to serve and not monetize anything podcast-wise, that wasn’t even part of the plan. But people kept asking me and insistent on it until one day, Heather Monahan, who is a huge influencer on LinkedIn and big speaker, she was like, “Listen Hala, we need to get on a call.” And she’s like, “Just show me everything that you do. Your marketing is amazing. Your videos are amazing. What you’re doing on LinkedIn is incredible.”

Hala Taha (16:52):

So I walked her through all my processes and she was like, “Hala, your step is as good as Gary V’s team. I just had a call with Gary V, what you’re doing is literally what VaynerMedia is doing. Do you understand?” And I was like, “Yeah, that’s cool. But I’m not offering services, I have a job.” That’s literally what I told her. And she’s like, “Hala, you literally have a million-dollar idea right here, I want to be your first client. You can’t say no.” And I was like, “Okay, fine. I’ll just start with your videos.” So she was our first client, she probably paid me $500 a month, nothing, right? Before I knew it, I just took over all her LinkedIn, all her podcasts, everything. And then I was landing these huge clients, 30k monthly retainers of people who just wanted the same thing that Heather had.

Hala Taha (17:35):

And then I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is way bigger than I thought it was going to be.” And one thing just led to another. And I ended up having like I said, 35 people who worked for me by the time I ended up quitting my job. It just became so clear that there was so much demand, there was so little risk, I had all the skills that I needed to do this, and that I would be a fool not to go after this opportunity. All the puzzles just fell together. And I think that’s really key, I guess the lesson in this is sometimes you’re blind to your biggest opportunities. And for so long, my answer to people was like, “I don’t do that. It’s just for me, I’m not offering that.” But if people are always asking you the same things, pay attention to what people are saying you’re good at and what people are saying they want. So people weren’t saying, “I want the guests that have been on your podcast.” They were specifically asking for the marketing piece of it, so I was like, “Okay, let me tackle that and become the premier white-glove podcast marketing agency out there.” And we did it. So I think it’s just paying attention to what people say you are good at is your first step into a successful side hustle.

Robert Leonard (18:39):

Why did you originally choose podcasting as your medium? Was it just a natural transition from radio to podcasting?

Hala Taha (18:46):

It’s kind of a long story. It’s like a revenge story of why I decided to actually go back into starting a podcast, but yeah, I’ve always loved broadcasting. I had the radio experience, I was the assistant producer, I used to do commercials for Hot97. The whole time I was at Hot97, I had side online radio shows that’s kind of like the precursor of podcasts. You would actually go to a studio and they’d film you, and then the video would go up on YouTube. And you would tell people to go to a website like dtfradio.com or aliasradio.com and listen to you live. So I was doing all these things that were precursors to podcasts.

Hala Taha (19:21):

And then I went into corporate and I literally thought that I would never get back on a mic. I thought my entertainment career was over, like I told you, I literally thought I was going to just be an executive in corporate for the rest of my life. One thing happened where I basically didn’t get an opportunity that I wanted at HP. I was the president of the Young Employee Network and launched this thing called the Young Employee Network, which was like a huge culture movement within the company. And then I was essentially supposed to be the president of the Global Young Employee Network. The specifics don’t matter, all that matters that you guys need to know is that I didn’t get the opportunity and I really deserved it. And it was another one of those times in my life where I had basically allowed the gatekeeper to tell me what my destiny was going to be. And at that moment in my life, when that gatekeeper told me no the same way that Hot97 didn’t give me that dream job and it was a gatekeeper telling me no. The same way that MTV squashed my reality TV show last minute and pulled the plug and it was a gatekeeper who told me no. I was sick of the gatekeepers telling me now.

Hala Taha (20:22):

And then I saw podcasting, this was 2018, as an opportunity to own something that was mine, that I could control and that nobody could tell me no. And that I had the control of how big or little I wanted this to be and how long or short I wanted to go on this endeavor. So that’s why I started the podcast because I wanted an opportunity to be the voice of millions of people and help people improve their lives professionally and financially. I had reached my first six figures, all this kind of stuff where I felt like I was a failed entrepreneur, so I had that experience. I also had the experience of being in corporate and I just felt like I could really talk to young professionals in many different ways and wanted to be that voice. And then again, I wanted a brand that I actually owned and controlled and not something that MTV or Hot97 or anybody could take away from me. And that’s why I started the podcast so that I could own my own voice and trajectory.

Robert Leonard (21:17):

How has podcasting been different than you expected it to be when you first got started?

Hala Taha (21:22):

Oh my gosh. I think everybody thinks it’s going to be easier than it is. I remember I was working at HP when I started the podcast and I went into [it], we had a little meeting and everybody was giving their new year’s resolution and it was the week before Christmas or something. And I told them like, “Oh, when we come back into the office,” January 15th or whatever it was, “I’m going to have my podcasts.” And I had just thought of the idea that day. I thought I was going to launch, create a podcast in three weeks or less. I didn’t end up launching it until that April. It took me four months to actually launch it. So it’s just the whole process, you don’t realize how much goes into it.

Hala Taha (22:00):

And then like the whole marketing piece, it’s not like if you put up a podcast you’re going to get thousands of downloads right away. There’s actually a certain way to market it. You’ve got to learn about media buying and how to convert social media users to actual podcast listeners, even just like the type of content that you create, the equipment that you use, the hosting that you use. There are so many things that go into it, it is really a craft. And I think that there are lots of people on different ends of the spectrum. There are people who get into podcasting and they’re really just the basics and they usually don’t do that well. And then there are people like me and you who are more advanced and kind of know the ins and outs of every single little thing that you need to know. And that’s how you succeed in any industry that you’re in is actually being an expert and knowing the ins and outs of the industry. There are lots of people in podcasting who really know nothing about podcasting, but they have a podcast.

Robert Leonard (22:51):

It’s funny because when I first started, I thought it was going to be a lot easier than it actually was. And I’m actually hiring a host to help me co-host Millennial Investing. And in the job description, I wrote that podcasting is a lot harder than you expect. Whatever your expectations are, at least double, if not triple the amount of work that you think it’s going to take. And I just said, “Trust me, I’m speaking from experience.” Because it’s exactly what happened to me. I came into podcasting and I knew I wanted to have a very professional, high-quality podcast, but even then I didn’t think it was going to take that much work. And I’ve quickly realized just how much work it actually does take to have a podcast.

Hala Taha (23:26):

It really does. There’s a lot of one-man-bands out there who do their audio editing, they do their own show notes, they do their own marketing assets. I have no idea how they do it, because like I said, I was recruiting volunteers since episode two. I had people to help me scale and I think that’s key. It’s understanding what you’re good at, what you’re bad at, and trying to outsource the things that are just going to eat up your time so that you can focus on those things that really matter. And that you can’t actually outsource, for example, maybe preparing for the podcast or coming up with the guests, that might be something you want to always control, but there are so many things that you can outsource with a podcast if you’re smart about it.

Robert Leonard (24:06):

Did you have a high turnover using volunteers?

Hala Taha (24:09):

No, I didn’t. You know what? I don’t know what it was. A lot of the volunteers that work for me are now team leads that are getting paid six figures to help me run my business. So they’ve all been rewarded and most of them have stuck with me. Of course, we had people that left, but all the core people have stayed. And I think it’s just the vision is just so strong and it’s an emergent space that’s really exciting. And we’ve been on the forefront in terms of being innovative. And I think they just see the opportunity and some of them are incentivized with equity and things like that. But yeah, I didn’t have too much turnover.

Hala Taha (24:43):

And I think part of that is just knowing how to motivate people and teaching them because here’s the thing, here’s my rule, at least now, it’s like we have an interim program where we still have volunteers. Every semester we get about 10 interns, now they get a small stipend because we’re making money, in the past they didn’t even get a stipend, but it’s 200, 300 bucks a month, that’s nothing. And my rule is, as long as you’re learning, I don’t feel bad if we’re not really paying you. If you’re learning and getting the experience and we’re teaching you, actively teaching you new things, then I don’t feel bad not paying. As soon as I feel like that’s switches where we’re getting more value than we’re giving you, then you need to get paid. And as long as that balance is kept, you can keep volunteers for very long, for very happy.

Hala Taha (25:28):

The key is that you can’t teach somebody how to do videos and then expect them to do the same thing for a year. You can teach somebody to do videos, they do that for three months and be like, “Okay, now I’m going to teach you how to audio edit. And you could do that now.” It’s moving people around so that they keep learning and learning and learning while contributing. But once you keep somebody in the same place and expect them to do the same thing, that’s when you take advantage.

Robert Leonard (25:50):

I’ve actually been quite surprised to hear how many people who listen to this show are interested in starting a podcast as their own side hustle, or just how many people ask me what strategies to use to grow a podcast. So what are the most effective strategies that you’ve used to grow a podcast audience?

Hala Taha (26:07):

That’s a great question. I feel like I was really creative and innovative in the way that I’ve done it and continue to do it. So I’m definitely the type of person where I just give away all my secrets, I do that [inaudible 00:26:18], I do that everywhere. So I’ll just be totally open. So I think one of the biggest keys for somebody who wants to grow a podcast audience is to have one platform that you have leverage. So for me, that platform was LinkedIn. I had put almost all my eggs in that basket, I didn’t worry about being on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, I didn’t do that. I just focused on LinkedIn and I dominated. I have more engagement on LinkedIn and Lewis Howes and Jay Shetty and all these huge podcasters because I focused on that. I fed all the features. I learned how to hack it. I understood what kind of captions worked. I knew what content types worked. And I really just focused on that.

Hala Taha (26:57):

So I ended up growing, let’s say … Let me take this back before I was a number one education podcast. When I was still starting, I was getting 3000 downloads a month, which to some people now are actually really good numbers. But to me, that’s like when I was smaller. When I was first starting, I was getting 3000 downloads a month. Which you’re probably looking at me like, “That’s so little.” Because you had instant success, which we can get into as well that I know. But I didn’t have instant success. I didn’t have great SEO. Young and Profiting is not something that people search for. I had to spoon-feed my podcast to everyone.

Hala Taha (27:28):

So back to the story, I’ve grown LinkedIn and I used that as my leverage. So once LinkedIn was about 60,000 followers and I had crazy engagement and reach, and I reached out to all the different podcast players. And I noticed that not everybody is listening on Apple, 30% of people listen on Apple, 20% on Spotify. And then all the other apps make up the rest of the market. And I said, “What about all those apps? I’m pretty sure they want to talk to my LinkedIn following.” Because a lot of my LinkedIn following love podcasts, that’s why they follow me. They love being educated. It’s the perfect market. So I just started cold emailing Podcast Republic, “My name’s Hala. I have a huge LinkedIn following. I’ll do some contests in exchange for you promoting me in your app.” And I just did that game and everybody sponsored me. Castbox, Podbean, Podyssey, Goodpods, Podcorn, you name it. Any podcast platform, whether you are an app or website or a blog, I reached out and I was like, “Let’s cross promote.” And all that happened because I had leverage, one thing, LinkedIn. If I had concentrated on Twitter and Instagram and all these other platforms, I wouldn’t have had anything because it wouldn’t have been a strong sell.

Hala Taha (28:36):

So getting that one platform that’s your leverage is key. Then as you grow your podcast audience, you can leverage that. So then I would start saying, “Hey Castbox, you want to reach my 20,000 followers on Podcast Republic. I’ll do a commercial for you if you feature me in your app.” This whole industry called “media buying” in podcasting that people don’t know about because a lot of the podcasts networks and bigger agencies, they’re the ones doing the media buying, it’s not really the independent podcast or that knows a lot about this, but there’s banner ad space within all these apps. And every app has a different offering. Some will incorporate you in their onboarding. When people sign up for the app and they’ll just make you automatically check as a podcast to get subscribed to, some offer that. Some offer push notifications to everybody who is just on their app and they’ll send a push to listen to your episode. Some are just banner ads. Some are audio ads, they’re all different, it’s like the wild, wild west. All the subscriber acquisition costs are different. Everything’s different. You have to experiment on these different platforms.

Hala Taha (29:34):

Now, I didn’t have a lot of budget. So like I said, I just traded. And because this is such a new industry, there’s still a lot of people willing to collab and trade and do these kinds of archaic type ways of doing business, and that’s how I got away with a lot of it. Now a year later, I’m one of the most advanced people when it comes to media buying in this space and I’ve got 20 clients who do media buying through me. And I have deals with the podcast players where basically I’m like, “Hey, give me 20% credit every time I sell something for you.” So now I sell ads for these multi-millionaire and billionaire clients that I have. And then I just get free ads because I have them credit me for what I sell. Instead of taking a referral fee, they just give me the ads.

Hala Taha (30:16):

So I do lots of creative things like that to basically give me the buying power as somebody who has a lot more budget because I just do creative things. And I think that’s the lesson here. I don’t think anybody can replicate what I’ve done. I think that’s kind of hard to replicate, but I think that the lesson here is that you can be creative and leverage what you have. That’s kind of how I grew my show, it was a lot of getting sponsored and kind of cross-promotion and leveraging my audience and leveraging other people’s audiences. That’s the main way and we can get into social media strategies as well if you’d like.

Robert Leonard (30:52):

I mentioned that was one of the most common questions I get from people about podcasting. I’d say the second most common question I get is how do you land high-profile guests? For me, it’s Lewis Howes and Kevin O’Leary and people like that. You’ve had guests like Matthew McConaughey and Seth Godin. What are the specific strategies and tactics that you use to land high-profile guests?

Hala Taha (31:11):

I think the key is realizing that you just have to ask, you’d be surprised to how many people would just say yes if you put something compelling, that’s thoughtful and not cookie-cutter out there and just ask. For me, I think LinkedIn was huge because it gave me that social proof. So even before my podcast was big, having that platform as social proof was really key because if I messaged them off of there, they’d see my engagement. And even though my podcast wasn’t so big, they were more inclined to trust that there is potential for people to see this content. I think the other thing is to see who’s already on podcasts. So it’s a way harder sell for somebody who’s like Matthew McConaughey, I got him, he was doing rounds on the Bigger podcast, right? If I went after Ben Affleck, it would be a lot harder even though they’re maybe same-star power, let’s say, but Ben Affleck might be a lot harder because he’s not promoting anything. He’s not comfortable on podcasts. He’s never done it before maybe.

Hala Taha (32:08):

So one of the things that I’ll do is look at my competitors and I’ll have 10 podcasts that I look at who they’re interviewing and we’ll scrape them. We’ll see who’s Jordan Harbinger interviewing this month. I’ll scrape them and I’ll be like, “Okay, these are people who are actively going on podcasts.” They might be more inclined to say yes and people who are not actively already on podcasts. So that’s one way. Lots of authors want to be on podcasts. Now when books launch, one of the main strategies is for the author to get on 40 podcasts on the week of launch. Right? So you can basically look to see what the most highly anticipated books are. So that’s how I got Seth Godin. I saw that Seth Godin has the Practice of Creativity coming out.

Hala Taha (32:48):

So I proactively reached out to him and I said, “Hey, I see that you have this book coming out in November.” I reached out to him about three months before and he said, “Perfect timing Hala. I would love to be on your podcast.” And then he put me on the train of the other 15 major podcasts that he was going to be on. And it was a huge look that I was one of the first podcasts to come out with his content. So I think those are some great strategies to kind of target guests that are more likely to say yes.

Robert Leonard (33:14):

What impact has any big guest really had on your podcast?

Hala Taha (33:18):

For example with Matthew McConaughey, that is, I guess, such a big name that people just can’t shake it out of their heads, where now I’m introduced as like, “Hey, this is Hala who’s from the Young and Profiting podcast. Cover of Podcast Magazine January 2021, and interviewed Matthew McConaughey.” It’s such a big part of what I’m doing now because it just has so much star power. I mean, in terms of bragging rights, it’s huge. But at the same time, just because they’re a big guest, it doesn’t mean that it’s a better show or episode. Some of my most popular episodes have just been really great content from a sleep scientist that nobody knows about or a human behavior expert that is just so good and so well-spoken, but not the biggest name in the world. Right?

Hala Taha (34:01):

So I think it’s understanding that it’s a balance. You do want the big names, the star power, that always helped. In the case of Matthew McConaughey, he actually reposted my content, which was huge and really helped. But a lot of these bigger guests actually don’t repost content and don’t support the cross-promotion. And then it’s kind of like, “Well, you spent all this time and money trying to get this big guest, and then they don’t even help support it.” So you need to make things as easy as possible for people to support. So one of the tips that I give people is when you’re creating content to promote your podcast, do it in story size, do it in that vertical story size because a big celebrity is more likely to do that with a swipe up to your link, rather than like an in-feed post that’s going to stay there forever, that’s not in their brand. And you really want to make sure that you have really professional-looking assets because that’s going to also make sure that they support.

Hala Taha (34:55):

So if you do get a celebrity, you’ve got to go above and beyond to make sure that you give them content in a way that’s really easy for them to support. And then the other thing I do is DM people a day of launch and ask them like, “Hey, can you share this? Here’s the link.” Reach out to them on email, if you have their [inaudible 00:35:10], whatever it is, you want to reach out on multiple angles and know who their social media person is Because most of the celebrities aren’t even managing their own social media. So that’s not even the person you want to talk to. So get all that information upfront so that you can make it worth it when you actually have a celebrity on the show.

Robert Leonard (35:28):

What are the different ways that you monetize a podcast? How can a podcast be an actual revenue-generating business?

Hala Taha (35:35):

That’s such a great question. And if you had asked me this last year, I would have given you a completely different answer, but now I really know the ins and outs of everything after having an agency. And one of my mentors is Jordan Harbinger, he’s the biggest OG in the game and has taught me so much. So there are lots of ways. The first way, let’s do evolution from starting a podcast to having a bunch of downloads. So when you’re first starting a podcast, you don’t have downloads, you don’t have an audience, all you have is your show and whoever’s listening and your guest. So one way to monetize your podcast is actually through your guest, lead generation through your guest. For example, my marketing agency caters to celebrities, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Those are the same people who come on my podcast.

Hala Taha (36:21):

And when I first started my marketing agency, all my clients were former podcast guests that ended up being curious about our marketing and how good it was and then ended up becoming clients. So that’s how I initially started monetizing my podcast was through my guests, the people who would come on my show were the perfect marketing clients for me. So anybody out there who’s thinking of a podcast, if you have a business, if you can think of a way to interview your ideal clients, that is a great way to network and talk to people who otherwise might not want to talk to you. A lot of people that I know monetize their podcast in this way. I’ve got a friend, Adam Posner, he does HR recruitment and he interviews HR recruitment influencers in the space, and he gets so much business doing that because it’s the perfect thing for him, so that’s one way.

Hala Taha (37:08):

Another way is affiliate marketing. So when you’re first starting out with your podcast, you can become an affiliate marketer for things like Audible or Fiverr or ClickFunnels, whatever it is that’s relevant to your content or relevant to your audience, you can become an affiliate partner. You don’t need a certain amount of downloads. And the one thing I’ll say is you’re not going to make a lot of money doing that. It takes a lot for a podcast listener to convert and follow a link and all of that. But if you want to make a couple of extra bucks a week, $100 a week or less, you could try affiliate marketing, again, I think that’s a really tough thing to try to scale as a podcast. I don’t want to put people down the wrong path, but technically it’s something that you can do.

Hala Taha (37:46):

You can also do commercials for your own products and services. So before you actually have enough downloads for a sponsor, you can just have commercial space, a mid-roll, a pre-roll, a post-roll, 90 seconds or so that you can promote your own products and services and try to sell. And then lastly, it’s CPM advertising model. So once you get to let’s say 5,000 to 10,000 downloads an episode, some agencies have 15,000 as a minimum. It just depends on what the platform is. You can start selling ads on a CPM basis. So basically what that means is for every 1000 downloads, you can charge anywhere from $15 to $45 per 1000 downloads. And you can start to layer on commercials on your podcast. So you don’t just need one commercial, you can have commercials in your podcast.

Hala Taha (38:36):

So let’s say you’re getting 20,000 downloads an episode, you probably get $800 a commercial. The ad agency might take 15 or 20%, and then maybe you’re left with $700. And let’s say you do four commercials, that’s $2,800 an episode. You do two episodes a week, you’re making almost six grand a week on your podcast. If you just have a small team, that’s great. So that’s one way you can monetize as well is through CPM. And the way that you would do that is you could sign up to platforms like AdvertiseCast, they’re great, I can highly recommend them. And then there’s other podcast agencies like Ad Results and Red Circle and all these other different agencies. There are probably like 40 of them that sell ads for podcasters. But the key, in the beginning, is to focus on growing your show. Focus on growing your show, that is your number one goal because none of this is possible, especially that last business model CPM. If you don’t have the downloads, you’re never going to get there.

Hala Taha (39:34):

So focus on growing your show, having great content, a great social media strategy. Maybe do some lead gen with your guests. If you’ve got a relevant side hustle or business, that’s I think beautiful when that all works out. Because now I’m monetizing in so many different ways, I’m monetizing with my guests, I’m monetizing with my ads, I’m monetizing through just my own, I’m going to launch a course eventually. So I think that’s the smartest way to go about it.

Robert Leonard (40:00):

I get asked about how to find mentors all the time. And you just mentioned that Jordan Harbinger’s one of your mentors. How did you come to be affiliated with Jordan? How did you gain that mentorship?

Hala Taha (40:10):

Podcasting is a great way to get a mentor. So Jordan was a guest on my podcast and he came on my podcast and I think he thought he was never going to see me again, but I made sure that that wasn’t the case. So what I would do is, like I said, I used to do all these cross-promo things and people would, for example, write a blog about me and in exchange, I would do a social post promoting that blog. So I started featuring Jordan in my blocks, like, “Who is your podcast inspiration?” And I would mention Jordan, and then I’d messaged him on Instagram, “Hey, I mentioned you in this blog.” I got on the cover of Podcast Magazine and it had a sidebar of who are your favorite podcasters? And I put Jordan and I was like, “Hey, I’ve featured you in Podcast Magazine.”

Hala Taha (40:52):

And then I would just ask him really, really smart in-depth questions on Instagram and things like that. And then Jordan starts to get to know me a little bit better. And he basically approached me and was like, “Hey, my producer is sick and I need somebody to write a new ad copy, can you help me?” And I was like, “Sure.” So I started writing ad copy for free for him. I didn’t ask for any money, I just did a favor. And then he was like, “Wow, you’re really good at this.” And then I started asking questions about media buying because I knew he was in the media buying space. And then one thing led to another, now he’s in my Slack channel, he’s an official advisor. I talk to him every day, we’re doing deals together. He’s basically my business partner.

Hala Taha (41:29):

And it’s all because I was willing to give him some free value. And he realized that like, “She’s new, but she’s doing stuff really different and I’m old, but maybe we can learn from each other.” So he’s teaching me all traditional podcasting stuff. And I’m like, “Well, have you thought about it this way because I have no formal training.” And I just figured it all out on my own. And I’ve got my own things that I learned along the way. So I think realizing that the mentor-mentee relationship is give and take, you don’t want to just keep taking and taking and taking from a mentor, actually, you want to give, give, give, give until they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I need to give something back because this person has just given me so much.”

Robert Leonard (42:11):

What has been the most impactful thing you’ve learned from guests on your podcast?

Hala Taha (42:17):

I think one of the most aha things that I learned was from Scott Adams. So he’s the creator of Dilbert. It’s one of the most syndicated cartoons in America. And he taught me the concept of skill stacking. And this is something I talk about all the time because I just feel it’s so relevant for what I’ve done with my life and where I ended up. And basically, he is a decent drawer, he had business experience, he’s funny and he’s a good writer. So he’s not the best at any of those things, but he’s okay at them. He put them all together and then became the world’s number one cartoonist and is now a millionaire and out of the stratosphere in terms of success, everybody knows what Dilbert is, right? But he wasn’t the best at any of those. He stacked up his skills and put together a unique offering.

Hala Taha (43:03):

So I feel like I’m the same. I don’t think I’m the best podcaster in the world, but I’m really good at marketing, I’m super creative, I know how to build teams and lead teams and scale teams, and I’m a good host, I’m a good researcher, I put all those things together and now I’m one of the biggest female podcasters in the game. And it’s because I had stacked all those experiences. So just understanding that every experience that you have is actually preparing you for the future you, and knowing how to pull those bits together and tie them together to put out an offering is just really, really impactful. So that’s skill stacking, and that’s one of the biggest takeaways that I’ve had so far.

Robert Leonard (43:44):

As we get towards the end of the show, I like to ask the guests three questions that create what I call an “action plan” for listeners to do when they’re done with this episode. So the first question gives listeners something to actually implement in their life. The second question gives them a resource to go learn from. And the third one gives us specific action items to take right now. So the first question is which habit or principle do you follow in your life that has had a big impact on your success that not enough people do but should?

Hala Taha (44:14):

How you do anything is how you do everything. That is something that if I had a tattoo or had to tattoo myself with a phrase is what I would do, “how you do anything is how you do everything”. Give your 100% effort in every little thing that you do.

Robert Leonard (44:33):

What has been the most influential book in your life? And it doesn’t necessarily have to be your favorite because I know that maybe it’s not your favorite, but it’s been the most influential or most impactful. So what is that book?

Hala Taha (44:44):

That is The Like Switch by Dr. Jack Schafer who was actually on my podcast three times already and an incredible book that helps you understand how to become more likable and have better first impressions. And to me, the strategies that I learned in that book have helped me in almost every situation that I’ve been in. Every high-stakes situation and every good thing that has happened to me is because of the things that I learned in that book to become more approachable and more likable.

Robert Leonard (45:10):

When this episode’s over, before the listener quickly jumps to the next podcast or to your podcast, what is one action they should take that can really help improve their career, life, or business?

Hala Taha (45:22):

What I want you to look at is if you’re trying to achieve something and the reason why you’re not achieving it is because there’s some sort of a gatekeeper telling you no, is to step back and realize that you have more control of your future than you realize. And that you can create your own thing and you don’t necessarily need to wait for someone to open a door for you. I think I would have been a lot more successful in my life had I opened that door for myself earlier rather than always wanting some big brand to open that door for me. So realizing that if a gatekeeper keeps telling you no, don’t try to find the next gatekeeper, try to do it on your own potentially. And I don’t mean to say that everybody should be an entrepreneur, everybody should have a side hustle, but if there’s something that you really, really want and you’re passionate about, don’t let anybody tell you, “You can’t do it.” That’s my advice.

Robert Leonard (46:15):

Become the gatekeeper.

Hala Taha (46:16):

Exactly.

Robert Leonard (46:17):

Before we hand off to where people can find you, the last segment of the show I like to wrap up by turning the tables and letting the guest ask me a question. So what question do you have for me Hala?

Hala Taha (46:29):

So Robert, I know that you have a very popular podcast and I know one of the questions that you asked me earlier that you said is the question that you often get is, “How do you grow your show?” And I know that from talking to you in the past, that you don’t really have a huge social media following, me and you took totally different approaches. I had a huge LinkedIn following and leveraged that, you didn’t. So talk to us about why you think your show has grown so fast and what strategies you chose?

Robert Leonard (46:58):

You’re right about social media. I had no social media. I didn’t even exist on social media. When I started the podcast, I had one small Facebook page for like friends and family, but that was it. I didn’t have Twitter or Instagram, I don’t think I even had LinkedIn at the time. But what I did was I partnered with a podcast company, a company that already had a podcast that existed and I leveraged their brand. So people listening are very familiar with the show We Study Billionaires. So that gave me a little bit of initial traction, but I don’t want people to get lost in saying, “Oh, it’s only successful because of the brand.” Because we’ve launched two other shows that no longer exist. If you’re listening to the show for a while, you might’ve heard of Silicon Valley and The Good Life. Those are two other shows that we launched and they’ve been shut down because they didn’t grow.

Robert Leonard (47:40):

So the brand helps, but it’s not everything. So what I really found that helped was finding these great guests that are in the middle in terms of size. So you talked about having big guests and you explained it almost exactly how I would, as my biggest guests were often my lowest downloaded episodes and that is because they don’t share it. And they don’t share it across their social media platforms, they don’t share it on their website, etc. But if you find somebody that has between 10,000 and 100,000 or 200,000 followers, that they’re actually engaged and they’re willing to share it, getting that share on their social media site or on their website, or even just in a story if they can, that has always led to a lot more downloads for me.

Robert Leonard (48:25):

So you focus on that size of guests and it just continues to lead to growth and growth and growth from there because you get everybody that came from the last person that did that is now listening. And then that next guest that does that, you have all those people still listening. So it kind of compounds from there. And that has been the biggest, biggest thing for me. And then also I mentioned this last time we chatted but titles. I think a lot of people focus on SEO, and SEO is really important, but it’s not as important in podcasting. I find that being an eye-catching title is really important for podcast episodes. So those two things, you combine those, that has been the biggest impact on the growth.

Hala Taha (49:00):

Super interesting. And I think the name of your podcast is really good too. Because I think people actually search … It’s called The Investor’s Podcast or Millennial Investor, that is so good. So many people are searching for stuff like that all the time. So I think also just your searchable name is really, I think, helpful as well.

Robert Leonard (49:21):

You did mention that last time we chatted and for those listening who are familiar with [Stig 00:49:25]. Stig recommended the name Millennial Investing. And at first, I was kind of hesitant. I didn’t really like the name. I didn’t think it was a good name, but then clearly it has been good. And you even mentioned that it’s a really good name. So I guess I can admit that I was wrong on that. And it’s been helpful. Where can the audience go to connect with you? Where can they find your podcasts, maybe your agency, where can they follow you on social media? Where they can find you?

Hala Taha (49:48):

You guys can find me on LinkedIn, you can search for my name it’s Hala Taha. I’m also on Clubhouse. So if you guys are podcasters out there, I do podcast office hours and always kind of doing educational events on Clubhouse for podcasters, so you can follow me there Hala Taha. I’m on Instagram @yapwithhala. Young and Profiting Podcast is everywhere, Apple, Spotify, Castbox you name it. So you can just Google Young and Profiting and find a million links. And then youngandprofiting.com if you can’t remember any of that.

Robert Leonard (50:19):

I’ll be sure to put a link to the website, all your other resources in the show notes below for anybody that’s interested in checking them out. Hala, thanks so much for joining me.

Hala Taha (50:27):

Thank you so much. This is so much fun.

Outro (50:29):

Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin and every Saturday we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decision, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.