[00:01:25] Larry Lepard: Thank you. Yeah.

[00:01:26] Preston Pysh: It is really, really good, Larry.

[00:01:29] Larry Lepard: You’re being very kind. I did the best I could and that’s I left it all in the field, right? What else can you do?

[00:01:34] Preston Pysh: Yeah, and you know what? The layout, like, we have a problem. Here is the problem definition. Like, I guess as an engineer, this is why I like it so much. You start off, you can’t even begin to discuss the solution until the reader deeply understands the problem. And you go by the numbers, you lay out every single chart. I love all the charts that you were using in this and it really helps illustrate it, but honestly, good Lord, man.

[00:01:59] Larry Lepard: Before you go on too much, let me just say, because I really want to say this as a disclaimer, because this is a group sourced book. There’s so many people contributed to this, and I’m reliant upon so much intellectual work that’s been done before me. I got to highlight safe and his book, Lyn and her book, you and your work sailor and his work.

[00:02:19] The list goes on and on. I can’t list them all here, but what I’ve done, what I, what I think my talent is precedent, everyone has the highest and best use in life. I think mine is kind of figuring stuff out and trying to explain it in a way that every man can understand.

[00:02:32] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:02:33] Larry Lepard: And that’s, that’s really what I tried. The goal of this book, I wrote it because I was sitting around one day last spring. Watching some blue team argue with some red team and they were fighting about all this nonsense, just complete and total nonsense. And I was like, you guys are missing the one underlying fundamental issue and somebody’s got to say something about that.

[00:02:52] And well, safe did a good job of talking about it and Linda did a good job of talking about it, but kind of textbook and the average American looking to get on an airplane flight in an airport isn’t going to pick up their book and read it. And what I’m hoping, what I tried to accomplish with this book is a book that the average American can pick up and read and say, Oh yeah, I get it.

[00:03:13] I get what’s wrong. And furthermore, there’s a hopeful solution. I get how we can solve this whole thing. So if I did that, then I’ll view it as a success. I think Bitcoin is going to love the book, right? It’s not really the audience. The audience is somebody who doesn’t think about this stuff and doesn’t know about this stuff.

[00:03:31] So that’s just background.

[00:03:32] Preston Pysh: Did your wife think that you were crazy taking on this? Cause this is, these things

[00:03:36] Larry Lepard: Absolutely, but she made enormous contributions because I used her as the test case, right? she’s not into monetary stuff at all. She was a writer and an ad exec. And so, I’d run up by her and say, do you understand this?

[00:03:48] And she’s like, no, there’s a footnote in there that says, what is the federal reserve? Right. you’ve got to remember there are people in this country who don’t know what the federal reserve is. She recommended a, there’s a chapter in there called skepticism. She said, Look, you know that all these other technologies have been introduced and everyone was skeptical in the beginning.

[00:04:06] Why don’t you talk about that? Right. And so that whole chapter grew out of her comments. So, but yeah, look, she’s been long suffering with me and the sound money trade. Cause it’s been up and down as I talk about in the book. And furthermore, I started this in May, June, and it’s done. We’re just trying to get it laid out, which is driving me nuts.

[00:04:24] So in six months, I did nothing but this book and that caused a little bit of friction and, cause she likes to spend time with me and we like to do things together. And some of those got kind of canceled, but anyway, here it is, it’s done. And I’ll go back to my regular life after this thing’s over.

[00:04:38] Preston Pysh: Let me just say. For people listening, if you want to get a book that you can hand to somebody and say, this is the stuff I’m always, because as Bitcoiners, we’re always having these conversations with families and friends, right? I look at your book as I’m literally going to buy 20 of these and just kind of keep them in the house.

[00:04:54] And the next time I’m having a discussion with a family member or whoever, and they’re just like, yeah, I don’t know. And they come up with some weird argument that like they think is dispelling. I’m just going to grab this book. I’m just going to hand it to him. Just kind of like. If you can take the time to read this, I think it will help explain my point of view.

[00:05:10] Larry Lepard: Well, that’s kind of you to say, cause if that’s what it does, it will have been a success. I really want to orange pill the world and I really want to try and protect the average citizen because as you and I both know, we’ve talked about for so long, they’re just getting screwed left and right.

[00:05:24] And I see it all the time. And many people who are doing quite well, don’t really see it or focus on it, but I do. And, and my sister lives in a community that’s more rural. And she sees it and, she tells me about it. And it’s just, it’s tragic what’s going on. We got to fix it. The good news is as the book talks about, it’s getting fixed.

[00:05:42] This technology stuff is really going to give us a solution, which is fantastic. So there’s a lot of good news, but there’s some bad news in there too. As you and I both know, this thing’s really broken.

[00:05:51] Preston Pysh: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very, very broken. I want to start off here because this story and I hate to ruin this story.

[00:05:58] Larry Lepard: Oh, you’re talking about the, the HBS event?

[00:06:00] Preston Pysh: Yes.

[00:06:00] Larry Lepard: Okay.

[00:06:01] Preston Pysh: Is that okay?

[00:06:01] Larry Lepard: We can, I guess people buy it anyway, if you want to do what you can, but I’ve tried to hold that back because I want, well, it’s a teaser, right?

[00:06:08] Preston Pysh: Well, let’s just put it in. No. Here’s what we’ll do for the audience. Cause you’re right. I don’t want to spoil this story. Cause for me personally, Larry, when I was reading this and cause we’re friends and I know you I’m reading this and I can see exactly where this is going with. And I was like, Oh, please tell me he’s not going to stand up and say something. And I knew you would.

[00:06:29] And you started telling the story in the book. And I got this giant smirk on my face. Cause I’m just like, of course, Larry is going to take the opportunity to tell these. People, these highfalutin individuals.

[00:06:43] Larry Lepard: And I got to tell you, I was the turd in the punch bowl, man. it went over like a lead balloon.

[00:06:49] I thought that too. This is probably not going to invite me to any more events. I can tell you that.

[00:06:54] Preston Pysh: I’m telling you, when I was done reading, I was like, I can only imagine how awkward all that was at the end.

[00:06:59] Larry Lepard: It was extremely awkward. Yeah, extremely. I got some real dirty looks from pretty high level people too.

[00:07:06] Preston Pysh: Oh, is that funny? Let’s just say, for the folks, listen, I’m sorry, we’re talking around this. I do want to kind of keep it for the readers of the book. Yeah, hold it. Hold it off. I’m going to hold it off. It’s a good story, right? Let’s just say Larry was speaking truth to power.

[00:07:21] Larry Lepard: I had it. Yeah. Truth to power.

[00:07:22] I had it buried in the book and I had a couple of people read it and they were like, Oh no, no. This is, you got to lead off the book.

[00:07:27] Preston Pysh: Yeah. It captures your attention right out of the gate. You’re like, Oh dear God.

[00:07:32] Larry Lepard: See, and by the way, that’s a part of what I tried to do here. People watch movies and people read stories and people care about people.

[00:07:39] People don’t read economic textbooks that explain why Keynesian isms wrong. Do you know what I mean? So, so I tried to bring all the Larry isms into it because it makes it more interesting. Right. how about the carrier landing story with George? Right. I’m sure as a former aviator and pilot serving in a war zone, flying helicopters, you could relate to that, right?

[00:07:59] I’ve never served in the military, but I’ve flown planes. The moments of sheer terror. We all know about it, right? I just, I figured those kinds of things are what will hopefully keep people reading, right? That’s the idea.

[00:08:11] Preston Pysh: I have to laugh it. So we’re talking about George. He’s a artist in the space and he, recently tweeted out. I saw, yeah, I have more takeoffs than landings and for anybody in aviation, they know what that means.

[00:08:22] Larry Lepard: Well, yeah, some, I didn’t put it in there, but sometime you gotta get him to tell the story of how he ejected out of a jet during Top Gun and the jet was lost and there was quite an inquiry.

[00:08:31] The flaps had gone bad on him and so he had the right to do it, but he said it was no fun going through all the processes. Oh God, yeah. Defending himself. Right. And yeah. And he says the ejection was probably under a hundred feet above the ground

[00:08:41] Preston Pysh: Wow. I didn’t know that part of it. Wow.

[00:08:43] Larry Lepard: He does have more takeoffs than landings.

[00:08:45] Preston Pysh: Not to mention for anybody that’s actually ejected out of a jet, probably one of the, not that I have, but I’ve heard is one of the most painful things. The amount of G’s you pull getting shot out of the thing is just absurdly painful. But anyway, let’s go ahead and dive into this. Sorry for all the side chatter for people listening in the beginning.

[00:09:03] So you lay it out. Here’s the problem. Here’s the solution is pretty much the two compartments of the book at that beginning. The thing that I find so frustrating when I talk to people about this topic. And about the problem is they say, well, Larry, inflation is just since COVID like inflation was not even 2 percent and they just kind of wave their hand and then the whole CPI and all these things that we’ve been taught as far as what is inflation is heavily masked.

[00:09:31] You talk about this idea. You talk about that. It’s the leading cause. Here’s the quote, the leading cause of ruin in our nation is this idea of inflation. What is being missed? How are they able to dupe everybody into thinking that this isn’t

[00:09:45] Larry Lepard: First of all, there’s just normalcy bias. It’s kind of, everyone’s gotten used to inflation and by the way, real estate investors, they think they’re geniuses, but really what’s it’s inflation. It’s making them look good. Right?

[00:09:54] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:09:55] Larry Lepard: There’s a section of the book talks about John Williams and shadow government stats, which I’m sure you saw. And they figured, there are four or five tools they’ve used to basically mask the real inflation, the hedonic adjustments, et cetera. And frankly, I think they just outright lie.

[00:10:08] I don’t think there’s anybody who thinks that inflation is what the reported inflation numbers are. my auto insurance up 30 percent and homeowner’s insurance was up a hundred percent last year. Try to go to a veterinarian or pay a medical bill. It’s insane what’s going on. And this is why everyone’s hurting so bad.

[00:10:22] And this is why the middle class is just getting eviscerated and lower classes as well. And, but the thing that frustrates me the most about it is this whole notion that this is normal and we need these animal spirits to keep the economy running. And the 2 percent is somehow price stability. that one just stuns me.

[00:10:38] Originally, the mandate was price stability, and of course, in 78, they amended the law to, well, to say price stability and full employment, and then price stability came to be fined as 2%, which was frankly just theft. So I don’t know. I think what’s going on.

[00:10:53] And this is the other reason I wrote the book is I was the kid in the 70s and the early 80s. It was a great time. Our country had problems. We were in the Vietnam War. That was a mess, but it was a really great time. There was a middle class. There was a different America. There was a kinder, gentler America, in my opinion, than there is today. It wasn’t all just a big money grab.

[00:11:11] The middle class was robust. I went to school with kids whose dads worked on the assembly line where they had the Ford and they did about the same as my dad did. And he was just a retailer. And all that’s changed. And I think it changed, it started, the biggest change came in 71, obviously, when they abandoned gold.

[00:11:25] And you can see that in the chart right in the beginning of the book. But then it just kind of progressively got worse. And we’re now at the stage where it’s just so terribly broken. You can’t miss it. Everybody knows it. Everybody sees it. And yet, we’ve got these political people says the greedy corporations, and that’s not really what it is.

[00:11:44] it’s not the greedy corporations, it’s the federal reserve, the government, the elites and the policies they pursued full stop. So you want to solve it, you return to sound money and, gold tried to do that, but gold was broken and flawed and couldn’t do it because the government’s figured out work around and change the laws.

[00:12:01] But fortunately, as Van Mises said, Bitcoin is that sly roundabout way and they’re all going to have to come to terms with it. And it’s really fun kind of watching them all come to terms with it slowly, but surely. I tweeted out recently, I think Ray Dalio said something along the lines of, we’ve got a sovereign debt crisis.

[00:12:17] It doesn’t appear that it can be derailed, which is kind of Lin’s, no train stopping. And then he further said, and gold and Bitcoin are the solution. I think it was the first time I’ve heard him say something positive about Bitcoin. Yeah.

[00:12:27] Preston Pysh: Yeah. And this is very recently, this is just in the past couple weeks.

[00:12:30] Larry Lepard: December. Yeah. I tweeted it out. Yeah, it’s going in our favor, and that’s a good thing. And my view is it can’t come fast enough because a lot of people are hurting on the existing system.

[00:12:39] Preston Pysh: For people that hear you talk about, back in the seventies and eighties and how it wasn’t perfect, but now it’s just way worse. Is this a function of, because I think any Bitcoiner would look at this and say the real debasement rate in the U. S. is around seven to eight percent based on the M2 money supply growth. When we look at that, we do a compound annual growth rate. That’s kind of the Bitcoin these days. And, and I agree with that.

[00:13:02] And so are we at the tail end of just decades of this debasement just eroding and gutting the middle class? And that’s why it feels so much worse now versus then, because I guess the argument would be nothing has changed. It’s just, we’ve endured this erosion and now at the end of it, it just feels so much worse than it felt back then. But were we dealing with the same exact problems even back then?

[00:13:25] Larry Lepard: I think you’re right. We were dealing with the problems back then. Very inflationary decade, Volcker kind of tamed it and put it back in the can. And we had kind of a, they were able to hide it for a number of years and keep in mind, as Jeff has pointed out so brilliantly, the deflation in technology and all the other stuff is fighting against the inflation.

[00:13:41] So, the world, it’s funny, the world’s gotten better because of all the deflation of the technology. Yeah. Right. But the monetary side has gotten worse because they just took these little steps, right? They modernize the futures, the commodity futures markets and Enron happened and. Phil Graham was corrupt, and he was part of pushing for that, and his wife was on the Enron board making millions of dollars.

[00:14:02] They got rid of Glass Steagall, and then they, in 08, they went to Zurp. we had never had Zurp in the United States. Briefly, they had it during the Depression, but very briefly. And then QE came in, and with each step, it got worse. And the other thing that I think describes what you’re talking about is the way that numbers compound and that any mathematician or engineer, if you start compounding numbers and put it on a chart, eventually the line almost goes vertical.

[00:14:26] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:14:26] Larry Lepard: Right. And that’s kind of what’s happening. I think the problem is getting progressively worse, which is why we’re now in what I call a sovereign debt crisis. And really the math is, we all say in Bitcoin land, it’s just the math. It’s irrefutable. This isn’t an opinion. It’s a mathematical fact.

[00:14:44] That if you grow the debt faster than you grow the underlying ability to support it, which is the GDP, eventually the divergence creates a crisis. That’s history for thousands of years and unlikely to be overturned in my view.

[00:14:57] Preston Pysh: I like this point about the deflation of technology being a compounding force.

[00:15:02] And then you have the compounding inflation of the fiat that is happening in like the diversion of that is maybe why it’s seeming so obvious today versus think about it. If we’ve had deflation or if we’ve had technological deflation, that is exponentially going right. And then over here, we have the inflation of the fiat that’s going at a whatever pace, call it 8%.

[00:15:24] The version of these two. Has gotten so profound. look at AI, Larry, I know it’s totally nuts. Like if we showed somebody in the seventies what we’re capable of doing it completely.

[00:15:35] Larry Lepard: My partner has a new Tesla and I took a ride in it the other day, four or five years ago.

[00:15:38] I took a ride in Tesla and I watched the self-driving feature and I was like, ah, this is years away, never gonna happen. I got in my partner’s car in Wellesley, mass and he said, drive us to Harvard Business School. And without touching the wheel, we got there. I was blown away.

[00:15:50] Absolutely blown away. When you see these robots and what they’re doing, this stuff is just coming at us so fast. And yes, I think you’re right. It makes the problem more obvious, observable and acute.

[00:16:01] Preston Pysh: Yeah. And for folks that are wanting to do a deep dive on this idea of technological deflation, Jeff Booth, he has a book called the Price of Tomorrow. It’s phenomenal. I know that was a huge instrumental, like puzzle piece, like that clicked in the place.

[00:16:13] Larry Lepard: It’s a big part of the book. I’ve got a whole chapter on that topic and he opened my eyes on that.

[00:16:17] Preston Pysh: Anything else that you discovered by writing the book on that particular topic?

[00:16:20] Larry Lepard: Oh, a lot of things. I mean, I, yeah, I hadn’t been into the deep history of the United States. I didn’t realize that we financed the war of 1812 with debt and we just sent suspended specie payment, and that it began right then and there. This sound money argument has been going on for a long, long time.

[00:16:36] Jefferson understood it, right? Andrew Jackson understood it. Garfield understood it.

[00:16:42] Preston Pysh: They were young when they understood it, right?

[00:16:44] Larry Lepard: I know, right? Lincoln understood it, but he took the wrong side of it, and point printed green bags.

[00:16:49] So I was doing the history deep dive. It was very interesting and I learned a lot. And this problem is as old as time, which is why Bitcoin is so unbelievably unique as you would say, here, you have a form of money that can’t deflect. there are a fixed number of monetary units, right? Getting your head around that is so hard and understanding that because of that, everything will look different.

[00:17:13] Just absolutely everything will look different. And that’s why can sailor can credibly make a claim that this will be 13 million a coin because there’s a fixed supply and productivity is growing and technology is improving. And eventually we’re going to get to the point where the dollar really isn’t going to be the numeraire.

[00:17:27] Preston Pysh: So what is that point, Larry? What is that point?

[00:17:30] Larry Lepard: What is that point?

[00:17:31] Preston Pysh: I don’t know in dollar terms. So is that 5 million a coin.

[00:17:34] Larry Lepard: Who knows? I just don’t think we know. I really don’t look, I love Samson and I hope we go to a million this year, but honestly, I just don’t know precedent.

[00:17:44] I use the power law as my base worst case model. Cause I think we’ll easily do that. Cause we’ve done that historically there’s 97 percent correlation, but I think we’ll break that to the upside very clearly. As the Gresham’s law piece of it kicks in.

[00:17:56] Preston Pysh: So you talk about Gresham’s law a bit in the book. Describe this for people who might not be familiar with it and how you see that kind of taking place.

[00:18:04] Larry Lepard: Yeah, sure. I think most of your listeners are going to know it, but I’ll just do it quickly. The general idea is that if there are a couple of forms of money that exist in a society, And one of them is being debased.

[00:18:14] I printed and people know that it’s being debased and it won’t hold its value. They save and the money that they know is not being debased or good money. And they spend the money that they know will be debased because they know that it won’t spend as well in the future. And so the phrase, the law is the bad money drives out good, which is you spend the bad money and you save the good money.

[00:18:34] And of course, before Bitcoin, this was all thought of in terms of gold and silver. And so if there were fiat currencies, pre Bitcoin, people would spend the fiat. Because they knew it wouldn’t buy as much in the future and they would hoard their gold and silver. So that’s the general thesis of Gresham’s law.

[00:18:48] And, and frankly, we see that going on right now. I just, I sent to you pre the show, some charts that showed that I believe the sovereign debt crisis has started. And the reason I say that is that in Bitcoin and gold terms, the U. S. treasury bond, which used to be the base layer of risk free collateral has depreciated markedly since 2020.

[00:19:05] It’s down 200 percent compared to gold. It’s down 2000%. Compared to Bitcoin. So in my book, the sovereign debt crisis has already started. And those charts are what show it, but we’re still probably in the gradually phase. And when and how the suddenly phase unfolds, I don’t know. But as you and I have talked about many, many conferences, we know it’s coming.

[00:19:25] the other part I really like about the book, and I think it was one of my, I think it’s my book agent who pulled it out. Cause I use the term. I just think the big print is so descriptive of what’s about to happen, right? I think you and I have had this conversation before. We just, I might’ve actually gotten that idea from you.

[00:19:38] I don’t know. We both talked about how they’re going to just have to print until their eyes bleed or else the system collapses.

[00:19:43] Preston Pysh: Well, another point that I would put in there as well, Larry is not only are they going to have to print, but a lot of the printing in my humble opinion, I’m curious if you would agree has already happened.

[00:19:53] It’s just manifested itself. Like it’s bid fixed income to levels that None of us thought could even happen. And so the unwinding of that is going to be the, the floodgates on rent, but the printing already have not all of it. Majority of this printing has already happened. And it’s just sitting there in this fixed income. That’s just going to continue to unwind itself.

[00:20:13] Larry Lepard: Completely and totally agree. it, it’s already there and it’s there in the stock market too. look at the valuation of all these stocks. It’s there in the real estate market and Bitcoin is gonna demonetize all of these things. Absolutely all of them.

[00:20:26] It still blows my mind that Jesse Meyer’s chart shows $900 trillion of assets of financial assets. If you include real estate, throw out real estate, it’s half that. And Bitcoin’s what, 2 trillion? Yeah. Two tenths of 1%. Good Lord. And this is the best form of money ever invented. It’s hard because I think you’ve probably encountered this.

[00:20:45] I have too, and I’ve tried to deal with it in the book. A little bit. It’s so hard because I have a lot of friends who know I bought in much cheaper, and they’re just, how can I pay 100, 000 for this thing?

[00:20:55] Preston Pysh: Let’s cover that question because I don’t necessarily know how to answer this for a lot of people.

[00:21:00] And they’re looking at it and saying, okay, it’s a hundred thousand dollars. For this imaginary coin, right? In their mind, right? In their mind, they’re saying, this is an imaginary coin that we don’t know who even invented this, and it’s some software that I got to trust the software works.

[00:21:14] And I’ve got to pay a hundred thousand dollars for one of these imaginary coins. And you bought it at 200. Well, of course you love it or whatever, right? What is the appropriate response to this type of person? Because if I have to try to be objective with myself and put myself in their shoes. It’s kind of a crazy question.

[00:21:31] It is hard. It’s really hard.

[00:21:33] Larry Lepard: It’s really hard for them to get their arms around. And, I use various different models. One model I think is a good one is the burning theater model. The fiat currency is on fire in a theater. And yeah, I’ve already got out the exit door because I bought some cheap.

[00:21:50] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:21:50] Larry Lepard: And maybe it costs a little more for you to get out the exit door. But does, does that mean you don’t want to get out the exit door? You know what I mean? If what you hold is going to burn and this is going to go up forever, then you really want to get out the exit door no matter when it occurs. And so you have to kind of sometimes I use the Weimar example, it’s like, yes, somebody who would pay more for gold couple of years in than the first person that bought gold.

[00:22:13] But at the end of the day, if the alternative, which was German marks became worthless. You were glad you had the gold. And so I try to use that. The problem with that is that that’s a scary prospect for people that the whole currency is going to fail.

[00:22:25] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:22:26] Larry Lepard: The other model I try to use is just, I just say, look at the performance. And sometimes I draw this comparison. I say, okay, great. Yes. I get it. I bought some at 10, 000 and it’s at a hundred. So I’ve got a 10 bagger. Yeah. But let me just ask you this. You look at what it’s doing, you look at how it got here, you look at how it’s been compounding, you look at what it is, and then you ask yourself, if in six years, it’s at a million, are you going to experience regret that you didn’t buy it at 100, 000?

[00:22:49] And my guess is the answer is yes, because anything that does 10x in six years, and I think it will do that, you don’t want to miss it. I’m not necessarily suggesting you have to take all your money and plow into it. But I also in the book tried to talk about just asymmetry and how as an investor in my career, I was a venture investor before I got into this area, how just asymmetry is how all great fortunes are made.

[00:23:11] You buy things that have unlimited upside. And look, any investment, you can lose your money. Trust me, I figured that out and I’ve done it and lost money. big money in a couple of cases, but the beauty of this business is my old boss told me is when it works, you don’t just make two X, you make five X or 10 X or 15 or 20 X.

[00:23:28] And I love sailors comment. It’s going up forever. Laura. it’s. You’ve got a form of money. this is a thousand, this is a multi, it’s a millennium year old problem. thousands and thousands of years, we have never had a form of money that could not be diluted full stop. And here you have a form of money that cannot be diluted.

[00:23:46] What do you think is going to happen? It’s going to, they’re just, there’s not enough of it to go around and it’s going to go to numbers that are going to blow people away. And 20 years from now, it’s going to be very obvious who owned Bitcoin and who didn’t. So what I try to emphasize to my clients is just the only wrong allocation is zero.

[00:24:02] I get it if you’re afraid of it. I get it if you don’t understand it, but look at people in my category. A lot of these people are fairly well to do. And like, they buy a car that costs over a hundred thousand bucks. I’m like, look, you can afford to buy one of these things. You really can. And you should.

[00:24:14] And they’re like, nah, I don’t know. It’s a bubble. You paid less, blah, blah, blah. You know how it is, right?

[00:24:21] Preston Pysh:  I think the nominal value at this point is actually causing this challenge for people because they’re looking at it and saying 100, 000 now is a really large amount of money. it’s a third of a house or a fourth of a house for many people.

[00:24:35] If they have a house, it’s 300, 000 or 400, 000. I also think that the nominal value, this 100, 000 number, Is also so in your face that for most people they’re saying clearly I’m missing something because there’s no way people would be out there spending 100, 000 on an imaginary coin if there wasn’t something there.

[00:24:56] So this dichotomy is really quite strange where we’re at right now and I’m curious if when we get to 500, 000 and let’s say we get to a million a coin. Is it that much more obvious because it’s like, okay, clearly I’m missing something because there’s no way people would be paying a million dollars for an imaginary coin. It gets so obvious at that point. Do you think that that’s coming?

[00:25:16] Larry Lepard: I think that’s coming and I think that’s right. it’s, yeah, that is a dichotomy though. And some people dig in and just think, no, you’re crazier than ever. And it’s going to fall back down and other people don’t. Look, I know I remember when I was watching it, I watched it at 1 and 2 and I didn’t buy it because I thought it was like DigiCash or eGold or eCash.

[00:25:35] I watched a bunch of these things. They all failed. I thought, this isn’t going to work. I’m not buying it, right? I went to 100. I was like, oh, hang on a second. It’s kind of working. I still didn’t buy it. Then it eventually went to 1, 000 and I said, all right. There’s got to be something here. And it corrected back to 300 and I bought it.

[00:25:50] And so I think that as we continue to make higher highs and higher lows, more and more people come to see what it is and come to understand it. It’s like any form of technology adoption. And as in the book, there’s some good technology adoption charts. People in the beginning who don’t believe, they just don’t believe. But then eventually it just becomes obvious and accepted wisdom that this is better money than any other form of money out there.

[00:26:14] And one of the best investments that anyone can make. The difficulty, as and we’re all, it’s incumbent upon all of us to help people through this is for people to understand the volatility because the one way people do get hurt.

[00:26:25] And I tried in the book to make this extremely clear is that they don’t know what they’re buying. They buy in on the excitement and the price run up class correct. And then they freak out and they sell. I’ve seen people do that and it just breaks my heart. And that’s why dollar cost averaging and there’s a lot of, there are a lot of books and articles you can read about dollar cost.

[00:26:43] Everything is so important and having a long time frame and a long time preference. as you and I both know, anyone who’s been in it for four years is ahead, but there were some times, I was buying at 17, 000 at Thanksgiving of 2017 convinced it was going to change the world. And a year later, it was a 10 and two years later, it was a four and a half.

[00:27:03] I was looking at myself thinking, Jesus, maybe that wasn’t so smart to do that. Then I revisited it all, did all my work, but that was kind of what I learned about difficulty adjustment and some of the technology behind it. Boy, this thing’s ingenious. And so I doubled down, and so look, everybody has their own path to doing it, but I think it will become more and more obvious.

[00:27:22] And I think there really isn’t a wrong price to pay for it. If it’s time. There’s another thing. I didn’t talk, put this in the book, but I read an article recently. Talked really, it was a great thing. And I know you’d appreciate this because you respect them a lot. It’s not just timing the market.

[00:27:35] It’s time in the market. It showed how much money Buffett made from the time when he was 65 to 85 being in something that’s growing consistently for long periods of time. Sit down with a financial calculator. And do the compounding right on an asset. If you can just compound an asset at 10 percent a year, if you’re a young person, you can compound an asset at 10 percent a year for decades.

[00:27:57] And there’s just no way you don’t end up silly rich. And I think this thing is going much more than 10 percent a year. And I think it’s going to run for more than decades. I think it’s going to become the base layer of money. So I try to, when I’m talking to people about that, just say, Hey, look, don’t.

[00:28:11] Think about, buy it today, buy what you can at 100, 000 and honestly hope it goes down. Hope it corrects 50 percent and you’ve got some dry powder to buy, to double down on. And if it goes to 200, 000, don’t sell it, be happy you’ve got it, and if you get some more free cash, buy it at 200, 000. I mean He’s saying 200, 000, folks.

[00:28:29] Yeah, you know that’s what I meant. It’s a hard financial beast to understand. And in the book, I tried to really point that out, that there’s just never really been anything like this before. And so, it’d be like trying to describe to people who were getting on the first airline flight in the 1930s, some propeller plane to take them from one city to another.

[00:28:51] That in a bunch of years, they were going to be able to fly to London on a Concorde in three hours. Just they couldn’t conceive of it. Do you know what I mean? And that’s, what’s going to happen here. this is going to be the base layer of all money in the world, in my opinion, in the future. And SAT is going to be worth, I don’t know, a dollar, 10.

[00:29:07] Who knows what it’s going to be worth, but in terms of today’s purchasing power, we don’t really measure things in purchasing power, but obviously all prices will be SAT based. And that’s, in my opinion, that’s where we’re going. A slope of that curve. Gosh, we can debate that forever.

[00:29:20] Preston Pysh: Yeah. In the book, you argue that sound money is a moral issue.

[00:29:24] Larry Lepard: Yeah.

[00:29:25] Preston Pysh: And I agree with this. I’m just hesitant to, I guess at the end of the day, I’m looking at the incentives and I’m saying the incentives for fiat, the incentives for what has happened historically, because I think Bitcoin’s the very firsttechnology ever to exist to truly give us sound money ever.

[00:29:43] Larry Lepard: Right? I agree.

[00:29:44] Preston Pysh: And I’m just saying I agree. It’s a moral issue but there just hasn’t been the discovery of a way to make it happen to bring this forth.

[00:29:53] Larry Lepard: No, that’s right. Yeah, gold was a broken alternative. It was the best thing we had before Bitcoin, and I say it’s moral just because I think that it’s very obvious that in any financial system There has to be a level playing field And there’s not a level playing field in the Fiat system, because as we all know, the contillionaires have access to the money printer and, in a Zerp environment, they can borrow at 0 percent interest and they can buy yielding assets.

[00:30:18] You and I could do that. We’d be billionaires too. And I point that out in the book, the misbehavior of the billionaires. It’s just, it’s outrageous. It’s absolutely outrageous. The wealth inequality that we’re all experiencing. 92 percent of the wealth is controlled by the top 1%. That’s not what the founding fathers had in mind.

[00:30:34] And capitalism doesn’t have to devolve in that way. what’s happened is we’ve got crony capitalism. We’ve got broken capitalism. And that’s, what’s so sad because a lot of people think that it’s capitalism that’s broken, but we don’t really have capitalism. We’ve got a fake capitalist system, but yes, I think you would agree.

[00:30:50] We would all agree. If you’re playing football, you’re playing any game. The rules of the game have to be fair and they have to apply to everyone in the same way. And that’s the basis of all morality. And that’s the basis of all religions. And so, yes, having sound money in my view is very strongly a moral issue.

[00:31:06] And by the way, this, this is not some new thought, right? The authors of the Bible were talking about honest weights and measures and how not using them was an abomination to God. And the way that people cheated financially in the past was they had a dishonest weighing scale. And so they could skim something off the top, right? This problem has been around for a long time because of human nature. What I love about it is that mathematically we’ve got a solution to human nature.

[00:31:29] Preston Pysh: I’ve seen some of these conversations online with, as far as Bitcoin being impacted in a similar way that gold was compromised with the derivatives market, cash settled derivatives market, the centralization of and control of gold.

[00:31:42] How do you view Bitcoin, and if you were going to audit it today, based off of some kind of standard of it’s been completely compromised, it hasn’t been compromised at all. Where do you think it stands?

[00:31:54] Larry Lepard: That’s a great question. And I know there’s some smart people who worry about paper Bitcoin. And honestly, I worry a little bit about paper Bitcoin, too.

[00:32:01] Sean McAfee had paper Bitcoin on his balance sheet, right? There are bad actors. So there are a couple of things I would watch. I, the book actually calls for a ban of derivatives because I think we should do that. I also think that we should have proof of stake it so that if somebody is running.

[00:32:16] Preston Pysh: Proof of reserves, you mean?

[00:32:18] Larry Lepard: Reserves, somebody’s running an ETF, they should be able to, they should show their addresses so everyone should know it’s really there. But yeah, I think there’s certainly paper Bitcoin is a risk. on the scale of things today, compared to gold, which has been 100 percent compromised, Bitcoin’s kind of like at the 5 percent level. And I say that because I look at kind of the derivatives around it, futures options, et cetera.

[00:32:38] And they’re pretty small compared to the trading volume and the total number of units outstanding. So I don’t think we do have much paper Bitcoin today. Furthermore, I think that people who would play with paper Bitcoin today are taking great risks. Gold never went up 5x in 6 months. So they could manipulate gold in the paper markets knowing that when it came back down they could cover their shorts or they could print the money they needed, channel it through the Cayman Islands in order to keep BIS solvent.

[00:33:04] You get short Bitcoin and it goes up 5x, you’re going to have to print a lot of money to cover that. You’re going to get wrecked. It’s in my opinion, it’s going to be harder to manipulate Bitcoin with paper but I think it is a risk. I don’t disagree with the possibility that humans are human and they’ll try and figure out ways to game it.

[00:33:22] But again, I think the way that we solve that is we push it for as much transparency as possible as much proof of reserves as possible. And I would actually call for an outright ban on financial derivatives because I think. I think financial derivatives are nothing but a machine or a game that allow the biggest player at the poker table to screw the other players because they can outbet the other players. And that’s really what the central banks do with the gold market because they can print the money they need to just cover their shorts if they’re on the wrong side.

[00:33:49] Preston Pysh: Just as an example to piggyback on what you’re saying there for people that don’t necessarily understand this concept, if you’ve ever played poker and you’ve played with somebody who’s extremely wealthy, that person, if they’re playing with you, all they want to do is just have unlimited buy ins.

[00:34:03] So if they’re losing, they want to be able to buy in with more chips and just keep playing the game. And if you’re playing with a billionaire and maybe your net worth is 10, 000, you’re going to lose that game if they’re more persistent and want to stay on that table as long as they can.

[00:34:17] Larry Lepard: Yeah, they can make a bet that you can’t call.

[00:34:19] Preston Pysh: That’s right.

[00:34:20] Larry Lepard: And that’s really what the derivative market is. And that’s what the central banks have done because they’ve got the printing press.

[00:34:24] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:34:24] Larry Lepard: So they’re the biggest player at the table. They can rig the game. But the book calls for the elimination of central banks. So we eliminate central banks. It’ll be a better world.

[00:34:32] Preston Pysh: How do you see that process unraveling? Are you just saying this should happen in an idealistic kind of setup, but In practicality or an application, how would that go down?

[00:34:43] Larry Lepard: Well, look, Ron Paul’s been fighting this battle and I think probably politically, it’s going to be really hard to eliminate the central banks, although their powers are slipping. and this book by Chris Leonard, I’m sure you’ve read it, The Lords of Easy Money, good book. Central banks are losing their grip.

[00:34:59] People are becoming aware of it. And that book was well reviewed by some very substantial publications like the journal, the FT, et cetera. So I think the central banks are in trouble. How’s it all going to unfold? Well, I hope it’s not going to unfold the way it did in the mandibles. I think that as a practical matter, what will happen is we will have a lot of inflation because we have to, and the inflation problem will become very painful to so many people and so obvious that it’s based upon broken money as Lyn coined the term.

[00:35:26] That we get politicians who actually understand that we need to do a reset and return to a sound money standard. It seems like that’s playing out, by the way. It is, right? We’re seeing some of that. right? So, and then eventually, with enough pain, sadly as I’m sure you’re aware, I think all the listeners are aware, politics really, they respond to crisis and they don’t do things unless there’s a lot of pain or a lot of noise around it.

[00:35:51] And there’s a lot of pain right now, probably not enough to just go out and shut down the central bank and return to sound money. Sadly, I think we’re going to have to endure some more pain before that happens, but I see positive trends. I see a Loomis or I see a RFK jr. I see others who Massey, and I see others who are aware of the issue and there’ll be more.

[00:36:09] Hopefully we get millions of Americans to read this book and I’m going to go to Congress and give every one of them a free copy and make a hell of a lot of noise about it. There’s going to be a groundswell, what we tried to do with Ron Paul, but weren’t successful in doing. There’s going to be a groundswell of people and voters who say the money’s broken, fix it.

[00:36:27] You know, that’s my number one issue. And if you’re not going to fix it, I’m not going to vote for you. Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of what I think and hope will happen, but it’s all part of this fourth turning, which probably got another seven, eight years to play this thing out. And it was my guess. I don’t know what your timing is.

[00:36:40] Sometimes I think it’s going to happen tomorrow, but then other times I get very frustrated. Trump comes in and they create doge and Musk says that they can take 2 trillion out of the budget, which is just an absolute joke. There’s no way they can do that. It makes no sense.

[00:36:52] Preston Pysh: Let’s pull on that thread. I had a conversation with Luke Gromen about this a couple of weeks back.

[00:36:56] Larry Lepard: I saw it. It was a great conversation. Yeah.

[00:36:58] Preston Pysh: This was an idea that I asked Luke and he seems to have the exact opinion that you have, Larry, which is how in the world are you going to spend less, extract that liquidity out of this system that is completely dependent on the expansion of, more Fiat units into the system.

[00:37:14] As an American, I want them to be more efficient. I don’t want all these programs, but the system that currently exists is reliant on the expansion in the growth of these things. So how do we get there?

[00:37:25] Larry Lepard: I’m not anti-Trump and I’m not anti-doge. I want to see them succeed. I think the problem that they’ve got is that 80 percent and this is in my quarterly letter, which will be out later this week, early next week. And I lay this out in great detail. 80 percent of the government spent 6. 75 trillion last year. 80 percent of that are in buckets that are very hard to touch.

[00:37:43] Medicare, Medicaid, social security, defense and interest. Yeah. Interest you can kind of touch. If they, if they go back to Zerp, we could take the interest down a bit.

[00:37:52] Preston Pysh: But, you already have an issue where nobody wants to buy it. And you’re so short on the duration of issuance.

[00:37:58] Larry Lepard: You lose your bond market. So the answer to your question is it really is brain surgery. And it’s going to be very, very hard to do. And I know there were a lot of people wanted Lutnick to be treasury secretary and he would have been fine. He’s a big Bitcoiner, but honestly, I’m actually glad he chose percent because I think percent has a better sense of the markets.

[00:38:15] And I think this is brain surgery. It’s going to be a tricky, tricky issue to get from here to where we want to be. I think they are going to do a strategic reserve. I spent some time speaking to Matthew pines at the party we were at, and he led me to believe that that’s a done deal.

[00:38:28] Preston Pysh: How are they going to go about that, Larry? According to Matt. How does he think that they’re going to execute that?

[00:38:33] Larry Lepard: I think it’s an EO. I think it’s an executive order very early on. If you think about it, Nixon did it as an EO, right? He just said, we’re going off the gold standard and FDR did it as an EO. In theory, constitution says that monetary issues should be brought up by Congress, right?

[00:38:47] But of course, we’ve ignored that for a long time.

[00:38:49] And so my sense is that they know and understand, Bessette gets it. Bessette has said things along the lines of, we need another Brenton Woods and I wanna be at the table. Wow. Vice has said things, vice has said things like, I like gold. My largest holding is gold.

[00:39:03] That was pretty interesting. So he gets the tris dilemma and the problem that we’re in now, how they’re gonna navigate it is very much uncertain. Another thing I would add though, that Pines told me and I thought it was quite interesting, and he was in the mean of conference, as was I, and he said that the discussions among the Trump people, there were along the lines of.

[00:39:22] They were talking with some of the Middle Eastern countries, including Saudis, Oman, and the UAE, all three of whom they say are buying, accumulating, or mining Bitcoin. And those countries were kind of asking, this is Manafort specifically, he said, asking, are you guys okay with us announcing that we’re adding this to our strategic reserve?

[00:39:41] And the response from the Trump side, he said, was something along the lines of, yeah, we’re fine with it, but just let us go first. I thought that was interesting, but we’ll have to see what happens here. But if you take this whole thing up to the nation state level, Preston, it gets pretty interesting.

[00:39:55] Preston Pysh: And it seems like we’re kind of at that crossroads now.

[00:39:58] Larry Lepard: Yeah, we’re right there on the cusp of it. So a lot of my thinking is informed by Luke. And I got to give Luke just an enormous hat. Oh, he’s brilliant. He’s brilliant. And I watched this thing and. I love the best part of his last interview with you. I just love this part where he said he went into the galactically stupid thing, which that’s one of the best scenes ever in the movies.

[00:40:14] People should get on Google galactically stupid, a few best men and watch, the Lieutenant Cali rant or whatever his name is, the rant that he has. And the notion that we spent 8 trillion and you were a part of this, you saw that we spent 8 trillion in the Middle East. To secure Afghanistan to give it back and to secure Iraq so that they can sell their oil to China.

[00:40:32] And then that we have a recurring liability of 325 billion a year to take care of the injured veterans that were serving there. It was just, it’s criminal. It’s insane. Dick Cheney should be behind bars. So should George Bush. It’s absolutely criminal what we did over there. And that’s, and that drove a large part of the problem that we’ve got, because that was kind of the kickoff to the big deficits that we’ve now gotten.

[00:40:53] It’s only gotten worse. So, It’s a sad state of affairs that’s brought us here. And, I’m part of the boomer class. A lot of people yell at the boomers and I get it. But all I would say is we’re not all that way. There are some exceptions and all along the way, I was opposed to these policies and opposed to this stuff.

[00:41:11] Yeah, and it is what it is. There are some of us who could see what was going wrong and we supported guys like Ron Paul, but we weren’t listened to, the neocons took the field and they won at the time. but you know, we will ultimately have our revenge because mathematically they’ve painted themselves into a corner, that box Canyon, they don’t have enough lift to get out of it and they can’t turn around.

[00:41:33] Preston Pysh: Yeah. So another thing that I think Luke does a really good job at describing in some of his newsletters on this idea of them having to expand the monetary units is just the tax receipts alone. Like they can’t, they can’t allow these markets to sell off in any kind of meaningful way, because if they do like the tax receipts, the gap that you’re going to have from the lack of revenue,

[00:41:55] Larry Lepard: That’s why I’m so convinced that we’re really, really close to the suddenly part and the end game. Because we’re running, you saw the first two months deficit of this fiscal year. It’s up 64 percent year over year. We’re running huge deficits right now in a healthy economy with a record stock market. Yeah. And as we all know in 08 and 2000, 08 was really the last big print. Well, no, the last big print was 2020, but the market went down 40 percent and tax receipts fell drastically and expenses go up because you’ve got all the unemployment expenses that run through.

[00:42:24] So we are on the cusp. Of a really, really messy financial situation, and I’m not trying to be a panic artist. I’m trying to be an analyst and be objective about it. But if I look at the math, I say to myself, good Lord, this is going to get really messy here sometime in the next couple of years. And, and that’s why that’s what drove me and held me to write the book.

[00:42:46] It’s just like, I got to tell people about this. I got to warn them because people who I believe have invested in something that’s sound are going to come out a lot better than the people who haven’t. And then there’s, of course, the one obvious solution, which is so much better than everything else. And of course, that’s the second half of the book is talking about that.

[00:43:03] Preston Pysh: Yeah. We didn’t really get into this solution very much in our discussion.

[00:43:06] Larry Lepard: I think most people know what the solution is.

[00:43:09] Preston Pysh: But the book does an amazing job covering the solution and, let’s wrap it up right here, Larry, with at the end of the book, you have a message of hope and I love this. It’s fix the money, fix the world. If you were going to for a listener, that’s maybe this is one of their first Bitcoin podcasts they’ve ever even listened to. What is this message of hope that you have that you really want to kind of articulate?

[00:43:34] Larry Lepard: Yeah, I want people to understand that I’d like to say that if people are feeling like they’re hurting financially and money wise, they are, and that it’s real.

[00:43:43] Don’t deny that. Don’t let the other side gaslight you into thinking that something’s not wrong because something is wrong. It’s deeply wrong. It’s been building for a lot of years and it’s coming into crescendo. That’s the bad news. The good news is there’s a solution emerging. It’s going to get fixed.

[00:43:56] And on the other side of this, we’re going to go back to a much better world. Things are going to be very, very good and bright. And your kids and grandkids and all of that, we’re going to enjoy a first turning, which is going to be spectacular based on all the technology that we’ve got, that’s coming. The problem that most people face that I think people have got to realize is that we’ve got five years of very turbulent, choppy waters.

[00:44:15] And to get to that good other side, we’ve got to navigate these five years. It’s not going to be simple. And the book is designed to help people to do that. But what’s on the other side, I think is really fantastic. Decentralized world, these big sclerotic governments aren’t going to be able to slaughter millions of people. We’ve fortunately World War II scared that everybody, we haven’t had another one of those since then. We’ve now got all these smaller proxy wars, but I actually think those will disappear as well. And look, Bitcoin is number go up technology. Bitcoin is getting ahead financially. It’s all of those things.

[00:44:44] But to me, the most optimistic part of Bitcoin is making things fair again, which is what America is all about. And it’s also eliminating war. Safe again, so that fewer people get killed, you fought in a war zone, you know what that’s all about. I never did, but I came close to, the draft in Vietnam and I was concerned about it, talked to my dad about it at the time I’ve watched all these wars and I just think they’re tragic, absolutely tragic.

[00:45:11] And the only way the book lays this out very clearly debasing the money is the way that governments have funded wars since the beginning of time, full stop. 100%. It’s logical to think that if we can create a system where they cannot debase the money, they can’t have wars. So imagine a world with no wars.

[00:45:33] Wouldn’t that be a better world than the world we’re in? I think it would. And so that’s, that’s my biggest, most positive statement regarding Bitcoin and why, like Jack, I’m willing to die on this hill. We got to stop these wars. So if only for that, forget about the investment side of the book. If only for that, read the book for that, because it’s going to make the world a better place.

[00:45:53] And the good news is this is going to happen no matter what. we got so much momentum. Now it’s going to happen no matter what the book has written to try and make it happen faster cause I’m not young.

[00:46:07] I want to see this happen as quickly as possible because I can’t wait to see the day when Ben Bernanke is in the history books as being the John Law of our era, which is what he deserves.

[00:46:16] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:46:17] Larry Lepard: I’ll ask you this, Preston. A couple of people who read the book said, man, you took off the gloves here and you went a little beyond the pale and your attacks on the federal reserve. What’s your reaction on that? I don’t think I did.

[00:46:29] Preston Pysh: No, that wasn’t my take.

[00:46:30] Larry Lepard: I’m glad to hear that. That was my wife’s take she was like you can’t say this about these, you know elected officials, I hear it I hear the point, but I think they deserve it.

[00:46:39] Preston Pysh: I think from an outsider’s point of view They’d be looking at it and say I don’t think that these people were acting maliciously that were in these roles I truly believe that they were just trying to maintain stability in a system. That’s all they knew. hell Larry, we have to acknowledge this before Bitcoin was invented.

[00:46:56] So prior to 2008, there really was no other way to do this. Right. So we can look at these people and say, Oh, they’re so immoral. They’re so this, but like what other system could they have done to keep economic stability in the short term?

[00:47:09] Larry Lepard: And I say that in the book, not everybody who’s a Fiat supporter is evil. Some of them, they just don’t know better. They don’t understand it.

[00:47:16] Preston Pysh: So, I’m just as guilty as you. you’ve heard some of my rants through the years.

[00:47:20] Larry Lepard: I guess I should have known you’d take my side on this one.

[00:47:27] Preston Pysh: Of course, I’m on your side, Larry.

[00:47:28] Larry Lepard: My wife thinks I should have toned it down a little bit. For all the Bitcoiners out there, you’re going to get lots of raw meat.

[00:47:33] Preston Pysh: I wouldn’t have believed that you wrote the book if you were a little.

[00:47:37] Larry Lepard: It wouldn’t have been me if it, right?

[00:47:39] Preston Pysh: That’s right. You just got to stay true to your tone, right?

[00:47:42] Larry Lepard: So, I’ve got a brand that I’m sticking with.

[00:47:47] Preston Pysh: Larry, I can’t thank you enough. It was truly an honor to be one of the first to read this.

[00:47:52] Larry Lepard: It’s an honor to be in this community. It’s an honor to get the information that you and Luke and Lyn and Jeff and safe. And just everybody in this community has been so good to me.

[00:48:02] All I’ve tried to do. It’s just pull together the best of the best and put it in a format. Yeah. So that an everyday person, a layman can read it and go, I get it. That was the goal.

[00:48:13] Preston Pysh: Mission accomplished. Let me tell you. Mission accomplished. Yeah.

[00:48:15] Larry Lepard: That was the goal. Yeah. Thank you. You’re very kind.

[00:48:17] Preston Pysh: This comes out, did I see the 14th of February is when this hits the street. Is that right?

[00:48:21] Larry Lepard: That’s the latest date. So just to bring everyone up to date, we’re in the layout phase. I’m trying to make it look as good as possible. I pray that it’ll be well before the 14th, but I don’t know if I had to guess right now. I’m kind of thinking maybe Feb one, but plus or minus, it could be a little shorter than that or a little longer than that.

[00:48:38] Preston Pysh: Yeah. I’m sure your wife’s wanting it to be out before Valentine’s day.

[00:48:41] Larry Lepard: Oh, absolutely. My wife wants it to be out yesterday. She’s tired of this.

[00:48:47] Preston Pysh: All right, Larry.

[00:48:48] Larry Lepard: So really great to be with you. Enjoyed it. You’re a good friend.

[00:48:51] Preston Pysh: You are a good friend too, sir. And this is going to be available on Amazon.

[00:48:54] Larry Lepard: Anywhere you can actually, it’s available now as a Kindle pre order. And by the way, if you can do that, it’ll help the algorithm. It’s 10 bucks. And before I put it out, I will put a tweet up that says it’s coming out in five days in print and you can go back and cancel your Kindle pre order to get the Kindle version.

[00:49:11] So if you don’t want to read it on Kindle, but you want to support the algorithm, go pick one up today. I love that. I love how it all works. If the algorithm shows a lot of purchases, then that puts it ranks at higher and all that other good stuff.

[00:49:24] Preston Pysh: I have no doubt it’s going to do very well, sir.

[00:49:27] All right, Larry, anything else you want the highligh?

[00:49:30] Larry Lepard: That’s it. Thank you to everybody in this community who contributed to this book and you’re in there. There’s a huge acknowledgement section, and I just, I owe so much to this community and I just want to try and give it back.

[00:49:40] Preston Pysh: Well, what a pleasure having you. It’s a pleasure to call you a friend, Larry, and congrats, congrats.

[00:49:47] Larry Lepard: We’ll see, let’s see how it does. it may not go over real well in the establishment. I kind of expect that to be the case, but that is what it is.

[00:49:54] Preston Pysh: It can’t go any worse than your Harvard…

[00:49:56] Larry Lepard: The opening scene was about as bad as it gets.

[00:49:59] Preston Pysh: Oh, boy. Okay. All right, sir. Thank you so much for making time and coming on.

[00:50:04] Outro: Thank you for listening to T. I. P.

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