[00:01:32] Preston Pysh: I think we should. I think, like, why are we doing this? What is this all about?

[00:01:37] Preston Pysh: So I guess I’ll start off and obviously chime in where you feel it’s pertinent, but I really want to cover more things on the show. Like I cover Bitcoin every single week, and as an engineer and as somebody who’s just deeply curious, in general, I’m looking at everything. That’s what I think is going to play out in the coming 10 years, and I think that this coming decade is going to be completely nuts.

[00:02:02] Preston Pysh: I think there’s going to be so much change. And I kind of want to cover a lot of this and I want to cover it from different angles. And first and foremost, your thesis, Jeff, of the price of tomorrow was a massive change in just in shift in how I think about everything. Like this idea of deflation in technology is something that just changed how I was looking at economics, how I was looking at Bitcoin.

[00:02:29] Preston Pysh: I was already a Bitcoin or, but it just entrenched everything that I thought I knew. In a much deeper way because I wasn’t looking at technology as a thing that was compounding with time in the opposite direction of what the fiat was compounding in the other direction. And when you kind of combine those things together, it was just like my mind exploded.

[00:02:51] Preston Pysh: And so this is what I’m trying to say in a lot of words, I guess. I want to start covering robotics. I want to start covering ai. I want to start covering nuclear and the whole gambit of all of these technologies that seem to be each their own vector, kind of all pointing to this idea of a monetary revolution.

[00:03:13] Preston Pysh: I think that they all intersect and they all interrelated, and I want to start covering all of that. So go ahead, Jeff. Tell the audience what you told me when we were talking on the phone.

[00:03:23] Jeff Booth: I just thought it made perfect sense. I’ve known you now for quite a while, but I’ve always known you to be super curious about where the world’s going, and actually not afraid to change your mind on something if new information makes sense and that’s a math mistake.

[00:03:37] Jeff Booth: It’s actually, I think it’s why your podcast is so successful, because that’s what you’ve done and people have followed your journey the entire time. And so now take what you know, and you’ve chased Bitcoin to the ground. Every hole, every spot. And I don’t think, you’re not saying you’re giving up on Bitcoin.

[00:03:54] Jeff Booth: You’re just saying this is a base layer or society. I chased it to the ground. It is Bitcoin. It reinforces that the pre-market is de, and we’ve never lived in one. If Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure, it is inevitable that we are living in one. Let’s explore the other technologies that are allowing that to accelerate, and so exploring some of those other technologies.

[00:04:20] Jeff Booth: When we say technologies, when I hear you describe that they’re not other things. They’re us inventing new things to be able to solve problems, our ideas that are the basis of technology, and that’s what now we have a base layer that allows all of that abundance to flow to all of us. Where the free market is massively competitive.

[00:04:40] Jeff Booth: Everyone has to compete to provide value to you. And if you’re holding Bitcoin, if you’re part of the Bitcoin ecosystem, all of that abundance is flowing to you. So you’re looking at all of our, if you’re part of the theater system, all of that abundance is being extracted from you and centralized against you.

[00:04:57] Jeff Booth: And so you already understand bit Bitcoin, you understand it for the sand, so I’m sure you’re going to weave it in from time to time because it’s important that people understand that phenomenon, what’s happening. But I love that you’re going to go and explore your mind, your curiosity to explore some of these other topics.

[00:05:16] Preston Pysh: I’m still going to cover Bitcoin. I just, it might not be every week, but I’m still going to bring on guests and talk about Bitcoin and whatever new is developing. But I guess from my vantage point, I’m looking at other nation states that are adopting it. I’m looking at the number of corporations that are adopting it.

[00:05:33] Preston Pysh: I’m looking at it from just a pure technical standpoint, which we’ve covered a nauseum on the show, and I’m saying I just don’t see what’s going to supplant it or what’s going to outpace it long term. But I’m looking at all these other things and I’m saying the deflation that’s happening, like this optimist robot.

[00:05:52] Preston Pysh: Humanoid robot, like we will talk about that I guess a little bit more. But when I’m looking at things like that and I’m looking at AI and I’m looking at these virtual worlds that they’re using to train the, potentially train humanoid robots and all this kind of stuff, and I’m thinking this is going to be absolutely insane in the coming decade, and I’m combining that with what I’m seeing in Bitcoin and I’m saying, how in the world can any of these sovereign entities.

[00:06:20] Preston Pysh: That are just printing pieces of paper at a break, connect pace, possibly compete with Bitcoin or where this is all going from an abundance standpoint. And I just think the story is so much bigger, like so much bigger. I want to cover each one of these topics, but I also want to cover how they get stitched together and how they’re all interrelated from a much bigger picture to kind of maybe understand where we think a lot of this is going.

[00:06:48] Jeff Booth: Let’s just have a conversation, pull on these threads and these threads are important to pull on because venture state, most Bitcoiners still today are not understanding that the natural state of the free market is deflation and prices should fall. And if you measuring in Bitcoin, prices are falling at the same rate as that technology is growing.

[00:07:08] Jeff Booth: So if you measure things from Bitcoin instead of convert Bitcoin to your piece of paper, then you’ll see exactly, precisely what I’m saying. Your model of the world should match, if it’s correct, should match exactly what’s happening. So the model I laid out in the world and is Bitcoin is free markets, deflation technologies can accelerate and it’s not accelerating, it’s moving exponentially.

[00:07:33] Jeff Booth: And we didn’t, we couldn’t understand exponentials and that meant all of these technologies. They’re going to coincide at the same time as this rate we can’t even understand, and it’s going to seem crazy. But if you were in Bitcoin, then all prices are falling by that rate. If you are not in Bitcoin, all of that has to be consolidated at that rate and it would look like coercion control.

[00:07:54] Jeff Booth: Most people are giving the system of coercion and control more energy. Yeah. By leaning into it, by their fear in it. Mm-hmm. because they’re not pricing Bitcoin, they’re not spending in Bitcoin, they’re using a derivative instrument of bitcoin. Thinking prices going up, that system is still inflationary.

[00:08:12] Jeff Booth: A system has to still be inflationary, and it’s the opposite of what I’m saying. The opposite of the pre-market prices go down, meaning we’ve never lived in a global free market. Nobody has a basis to understand that, and it takes lots of time to understand what’s happening. At the same time, all of these technologies are moving exponentially, creating chaos in our brain from our previous models.

[00:08:37] Jeff Booth: Villages, use some examples of if that model of reality was correct, and in my mind it certainly is because it’s explaining everything, not one thing, everything. What would it feel like? Let’s use some examples and let’s use some examples of why it would gain more fear in the minds of most of the population.

[00:08:57] Jeff Booth: Let’s use some simple examples. First, I’m going to lose my job. Prices are going up. Prices are going up. I’m going to lose my job to ar. What do I do? I turn to the government I’m spending in the fiat dollar and save. What does the government do? I’ll save you because I’ll get votes. How do I save you? I print more money. Destroy it and make it worse for.

[00:09:16] Jeff Booth: That accelerates at the same pace as technology is moving the other way, it centralizes faster. What do laws look like or in that system? They get changed and all your freedoms go away from that centralization because they have to. You’re voting for what does technology look like over you?

[00:09:34] Jeff Booth: It looks like a control system owned by three or four or two giant monopolies of AI companies. That all of your information is going through and you’re feeding it, making it stronger where they could turn you off at any moment. Not just money, but everything, or potentially worse because you’re feeding it in that system.

[00:09:55] Jeff Booth: Your mind is being warped to what that system wants you to believe. Mm-hmm. But you have no idea. Mm-hmm. Because you’re inside that system, through fear, making it stronger, which, how do I survive that would happen. What would happen as it got worse and worse and worse, and I’m, I’m going down the fear track at first because that’s, majority of the population is living in that fear with, without realizing they’re living in that fear.

[00:10:20] Jeff Booth: What they’re saying is, it’s someone else, it’s not me. Mm-hmm. Right. If somebody else is responsible for my happiness and they’re stuck enough fear but has more and more coercion and control, and as the free market gives us tools to essentially create our own ais bioengineering, and what will people do that want to burn it all down, but the same technology that could free all of us, they will use those technologies.

[00:10:47] Jeff Booth: To create massive problems for the world, right? Because they’re so stuck. And what will the system do in reaction? Try to stop it. How will it stop it? It will drive more printing. Am I more coercion, more control? Will most people in the system do? Yes. Stop them. What will those people do? Because they’re so hurt from that, they will want to burn it Tail down.

[00:11:10] Jeff Booth: It’ll divide society. It get worse and worse. And I know that’s a really dystopian, view, but I just want to make sure why I use that as an example. Because these technologies are inevitable anyways. They’re coming no matter what. Mm-hmm. When you think robot or robot dogs or your fear is what that will look like, we’re seeing a tiny, tiny section of what will happen.

[00:11:32] Jeff Booth: There’ll be nanorobots, there’ll be every robot of different uses, not just, our likes, but purpose built robots to be able to do all of this. It’ll be swarms, robots we see that are already in drones today. It’ll be everywhere. And AI will be driver of all those things. This is coming no matter what the free market demands that, all of that price, that all of the prices, the abundance from that, those that flows to you. ’cause an entrepreneur cannot create more value without you using more value and flowing to you. You’re a part of the free market in the world I described from Bitcoin. There would be no reason to fight with everybody. To divide everybody because your life would be getting better and better from all of the same thing.

[00:12:16] Jeff Booth: The only way as an entrepreneur, instead of it looking like three or two or three big food monopolies, drug monopolies, robot monopolies, AI monopolies that are going to merge in all interact with the government, with your money together to control you, but money has been stolen from you. There will be thousands of companies by individuals. Time to deliver value to you. Mm-hmm. And there can’t be any monopoly in the world that I’m describing. 

[00:12:45] Preston Pysh: Mm-hmm. I think that’s the thing also that I want to make sure is covered, is this idea of open source technology as it relates to ai, as it relates to robotics, as it relates to all of these different things because if the money, like you’re describing Bitcoin is there providing value and allowing Cooper incentivizing cooperation as opposed to the opposite, which is what fiat’s doing, the incentive for open source technologies is going to proliferate with time. And somebody needs to cover, somebody needs to be talking about some of this stuff when we’re seeing it already.

[00:13:25] Preston Pysh: Like we just, you and I had a conversation last week about an OS that was open source, that’s through a web browser, things like that. I find that stuff so fascinating and so important for the world to see. I think I just saw last week, one employee took the entire weights of X AI’s current model and took it to open ai.

[00:13:48] Preston Pysh: And so I think another part with this existing system and the way that all these technologies are being built is I think they’re very precarious to protection. And I think that with time the models, like some of these very advanced models are going to be leaked. And I think you’re going to have this movement from an open source standpoint that is somewhat unstoppable in the same direction that you just kind of described the proliferation of these fiat based tech in centralized technologies.

[00:14:21] Preston Pysh: It’s the classic, you’re watching a movie and there’s the villain and some positive cooperative force entity, individual or whatever almost has to be able to be stood up to counter it. And I think that we’re seeing this literally play out in real time with the world and the way that it’s shaped and the technology and all this stuff that’s happening. And I guess I want to cover all of it. I want to be there covering all of it. 

[00:14:47] Jeff Booth: But you’re going to be super important in that. Like, super important in that because every one that I see covering, not right now, everyone I see covering it right now. They have a bias within the fiat world. Mm-hmm. Meaning it all gets centralized at a faster rate. Just in the why. You just keep on coming down to the first principle. Yeah. A natural state of the free market installation prices fall to the marginal cost of production. What would you expect to happen in that natural state of the world you would expect as technology exploded? Prices defaults marginal cost production everywhere. 

[00:15:20] Jeff Booth: What’s happening in the world. Not that unless you’re bidding. Unless you’re Bitcoin. In Bitcoin, yeah. Unless you’re in Bitcoin. And so even when you say open source, open source is fantastic and I’m a huge proponent, but it won’t need to be open source because they everywhere because entrepreneurs are going to compete. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:38] Jeff Booth: It’s what they’re giving you does. If it provides value for a while, then somebody else, because of the margin they’re making, will compete with them. That’s right. And prices will fall. So today, where does the money for open source come from? Money from open source comes from somebody wanting to donate that they’re making this money over here to this other system. So it’s money, that money for open source, not that that’s bad or good or anything else.

[00:16:04] Jeff Booth: I love that the money’s still coming from somebody who’s made the money from a broken system. Mm-hmm. It is it that is donating and if money dries up and then there is no open source. The free market has to win. We are a part of the free market. The more you do in the free market, the more you do in Bitcoin, the faster it wins. Every one of us, every single person on the planet has agency in that discussion. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:28] Jeff Booth: If you’re not in that discussion, so now you take what you know about Bitcoin, what you know about your own agency, operating in a system that needs to remain decentralized and secure for this global, a vengeance to flow to all of us. And you marry that with all of these technologies and you’ll stitch together a show like no one else’s show because all of those other shows are through a fiat lens. 

[00:16:53] Preston Pysh: I want to get a little specific on something that literally, this came out yesterday. Elon Musk replies to this whole Mars catalog. They were asking a question about, scaling and becoming multiplanetary and all this, and this was Elon’s response, which I think is just mind blowing.

[00:17:12] Preston Pysh: Check this out, Jeff. There’s their question and his response and down in here says 80% of Tesla’s value will be optimists, like. That is totally nuts for him to come out and say that based on what we know about Tesla today and the cars and like where all of that’s at, and just, you can just see where he thinks all of this is going like very quickly for a product that hasn’t even launched yet. I know Elon can be very…

[00:17:41] Jeff Booth: He can say things way ahead of time that, that that’s their, their value. No, what he is not saying is, is that value? ’cause what you’re describing, even in that tweeter he’s describing in that tweet. He is describing, I’m going to have the largest company in the world and it’s going to be a giant monopoly because it’s a fake one.

[00:17:57] Jeff Booth: That’s what he is describing or what people are reading. What he’s not describing is he’s being worried priced by Bitcoin right now. His company is being worried priced by Bitcoin right now. And over Bitcoin’s term that 80% could be a really small company with thousands of competitors, and it still might be true.

[00:18:15] Preston Pysh: Oh yeah. I see what you’re, I see where you’re going.

[00:18:17] Jeff Booth: You see what I see. See what I’m saying? Saying, yeah. And I know because I’m pretty close to the robotics sector in very closely ai. He is. That’s why he bought apps, that’s why he bought Twitter. To digest the information, your information, to be able to train the models, add those models to the tests that, to the vision test has, and all of the vision models to be able to move this.

[00:18:40] Jeff Booth: He’s got a fantastic engineering team and he is one of the leaders. Mm-hmm. But, but those leaders are coming out of China as well. Yeah. Those leaders are at a crazy rate. Look at, is it BYD? Look at the cars coming out of China in comparison to the cars coming out, Tesla still. And you’ll see, wow, that competition is real. That competition. He is not the only one doing this, and he’s not winning everywhere. He’s winning where he has a regulatory vote.

[00:19:09] Preston Pysh: You know what’s interesting about the car thing? So we were over in Dubai and we were talking to some of the people that the Uber drivers that were driving us around and some of the cars, I’d never seen some of these cars before that were on the road.

[00:19:22] Preston Pysh: And I started talking to one guy about it and he said, oh yeah, a lot of these are Chinese car manufacturers. What was weird was some of them looked like a Range Rover or some of them looked like brands that in the US like almost identical. But then you get inside and the bells and whistles that they have inside and the intelligence in the car was off the charts.

[00:19:47] Preston Pysh: And I’m there thinking to myself, well, this was the other point, was the price was so much cheaper than what you would pay for one of these Western car brands. And then it dawned on me, it’s like they are eating the data out of these cars, where they’re driving what they’re saying inside all of it at a discount or maybe even cost so that they can collect to all that information.

[00:20:11] Preston Pysh: And so to your point, which I think is very salient, is the competition isn’t just like what we’re seeing here in the US or what we’re being fed through our social media feed. So much of this brace of deflation, technological deflation is happening on an international scale. And I think it like way more profound and way more competitive than many of us realize.

[00:20:34] Jeff Booth: So yes, way more. And so those cars are a third of the practice. Wow. And so they’re marked that they’re just losing money on for the ai. They might notbe losing money. Their labor is cheaper. These are dark robotics factories that are AI becoming AI built.

[00:20:49] Jeff Booth: They don’t have any lights on. They don’t have any humans. So first, the human labor was a lot cheaper. The human labor was cheaper because I know is using the currency as an advantage to keep their exports up, to have the human labor cheaper. So their labor was cheaper. What did the pre-market do? All of the US companies that were trying to compete for your dollars funneled all their production to China because the us the labor was cheaper.

[00:21:17] Jeff Booth: What did that do? China needed to be competitive at a price that was lower and lower and lower. So they automated, automated, automated. They created some of these first dark factories that didn’t have humans in them. So that they could reach price point is the US regulatory mode on their cars protected Tesla and GM and other cars.

[00:21:38] Jeff Booth: What did China market do? They sold those cars to anyone else who wanted to buy them and that’s why they’re lower costs, not because they’re giving them away.

[00:21:46] Preston Pysh: How far out do and I have for people that are looking at the video, I have the Optimist robot pulled up here and just showing like all the different tasks that it’s being trained on and like what this impact might be kind of moving forward.

[00:21:58] Preston Pysh: When you look at stuff like this, Jeff, I mean, this is your thesis from five, six years ago when you wrote the book. What kind of world is this going to be? And from what I read, this is going to be in households, call it, three years from now, you’re going to be able to have something like this in your house, maybe four.

[00:22:18] Preston Pysh: Then at scale, you’re probably seven, eight years out where these things are everywhere. And it’s not just, like you said, just not just this robot. It’s going to be all sorts that are maybe more specialized for the factory. I think the humanoid ones are going to be the ones that go into the homes, but when you think about how much labor is going to be eaten away at with things like this, I can’t even wrap my head around it.

[00:22:43] Jeff Booth: So when you’re showing this, what now? Some of the stuff that’s happening behind the scenes, to do that first, in that video, you saw a whole bunch of humans. Mm-hmm. Five years. It won’t look like that. But to do the hand articulation, to figure how much pressure do I put on this object to be able to pick this up, to cuts, to sweep, to do all of these things that you’re talking about, tie it into everything else to walk to.

[00:23:08] Jeff Booth: These are complex tasks. They’re being tackled. At a rate, it’s hard to comprehend. I saw a robot skin investment that I didn’t actually make, but it was most of this is done by cameras today. Takes tons of camera dimensions and everything else. Tons of data to be able to drain us sensored skin. It’s the same feel touches we do.

[00:23:30] Jeff Booth: And then all of that data is collected into the models because it has all of these sensors. And think about what it would look like in gaming, right? If you had haptic sensors everywhere and what that gaming would look like. Now cover a robot the same mm-hmm. Haptic sensors everywhere. And now it picks up more information for the AI to learn at a greater pace and con do all these things.

[00:23:51] Jeff Booth: So this, the confluence of all of these things is happening at a rate that if you’re outside of it. And it’s going to be interesting. I’m interested all your journey and your new show too, because you’re going to be able to weave together this, plus this, plus this, plus this, plus this, and all what’s happening on Bitcoin to show wow, the rate of, that’s what this means where so many people are in a silo, one of these silos and not understanding how the greater picture all unfolds together.

[00:24:22] Preston Pysh: So on that topic, I don’t want to, I don’t want to talk about how AI just in general is augmenting the learning of some of these humanoid, or has the potential to augment the learning. So check this out, Jeff. So here is a, what appears to be like a video footage, right? Where you’re looking at a person walking through a museum right now, first person view, they’re looking at just some rocks.

[00:24:46] Preston Pysh: They’re looking at the dinosaur there. They’re kind of moving around. Here they are on a market walking. There’s flowers on the street, and all of this is being generated real time with ai. This is Genie three, which is just ad hoc, making things up as it goes through and ingested a bunch of video footage from YouTube.

[00:25:09] Preston Pysh: Evidently, is how this was generated. I believe this is a Google model. And so you’re looking at it and you’re saying, well, how in the world would this ever be used? And you just got done talking about how on the robotic side, how it has to be trained on like all of this information, right? It has to be in this real environment.

[00:25:27] Preston Pysh: But one of the fastest things that, that we’re finding on the robotics side for training purposes is simulated training. So you put the robot in this synthetic environment, you tell it to learn how to dance. Or you learn how to pick up this ball or whatever it is, and they go over and over again. But if you have this simulated environment where they can run a million iterations of it, they can learn.

[00:25:51] Preston Pysh: You went away, you went back to bed, and you slept for the night. You come back in the morning and now the robot’s perfect at picking up the ball as opposed before where it had to do it in the real environment. It might have taken five days. So I’m looking at this synthetic environment that’s being ad hoc, built on the fly.

[00:26:07] Preston Pysh: My understanding is that it can remember up to like 90 seconds of what it showed before in the environment, like as it’s just spontaneously generating all of this on the fly. And it’s almost like we’re building a dream environment for robots to learn and I’m, I’m just looking to stop and it is blowing my mind.

[00:26:28] Preston Pysh: What in the world? Like the speed. I think that’s the thing is the speed at which this is all taking place is beyond words. It’s beyond comprehension. 

[00:26:38] Jeff Booth: Yeah. And that can do one of two things. You could get excited about that be part of it, or you could get fearful of it. And how does this impact me right now?

[00:26:47] Jeff Booth: And these technologies are impacting all of us. We see these things. We say, well, how dare those companies take our jobs? Well, what are we going to do about it? Well, we live in a fiat system, making sure those companies take our jobs and prices rise that whole time. And now take your synthetic data and take it to its natural conclusion.

[00:27:08] Jeff Booth: Or let’s live in that centralized world, not true Bitcoin. Then all of the information inside the system, more and more of it would be che, it would be what we were told. We wouldn’t know the difference. We would be stuck. We’d be stuck in that world. Yeah. Right, right. That’s what it would look like. I don’t think it ever goes like this, by the way.

[00:27:27] Jeff Booth: This is also the same collision between what’s happening in the world, what you can feel, what’s happening in the world, and then you can take your own actions within that collision and you could say, what world, what future am I making stronger with my actions? Am I making the one where I live in this synthesized world stronger, where somebody’s controlling me in everything I do, or can I make the free market stronger with my actions?

[00:27:55] Jeff Booth: And every single person that is going to play that in these, we are the super computer in my mind, right? The new information, what was there before. Not that it can’t come from the computer, but the new information or there is always from our mind. Outside of the information the system holds. And we are the thing that says, wait, what about this?

[00:28:16] Jeff Booth: What about this? What about this? And so we’re bringing that new information to a system that the output is the prices. That the output is the prices, all that. Like if you trained garbage in, you’d get garbage. If it was all synthetic information, look at what some of the algorithms did. If you use Google as an example when now we’ve destroyed a whole bunch of the woke, but look at what the algorithms did and of what that looked like.

[00:28:43] Jeff Booth: When you asked it a question, and the reason it looked so egregious to you is because your brain said, that’s not right. Yeah. Right. And so you can just now imagine if you didn’t know to say that, that’s not right. That your brain said, oh yeah, that’s okay. That’s okay. Okay. That’s what that other system looks like.

[00:29:03] Preston Pysh: If I was kinda push back on whether you know where this is all going, could start generating its own unique, useful data, and more importantly, creative thoughts on how to advance things forward from a robot’s perspective. I think that leading experts in the space would make the argument that this is why we need humanoid robots.

[00:29:24] Preston Pysh: We need the AI to be able to nest itself into a vehicle that allows it to go out into the environment and have its own unique experiences. And when it can go out in there and do that and retain its own unique experiences, then it’s going to have a more compartmentalized. Experience that isn’t, in training in ai, if you train it on a massive data set, it’s hard for it to be an expert in one specific thing.

[00:29:56] Preston Pysh: But if it goes out and it learns in that specific domain, let’s say that it’s trying to be a doctor, right? And it’s shadowing a doctor and it’s being fed with tons of real information for years in that specific domain, and it’s not compressing other information that would cloud its judgment, right? That you might start getting very unique insights and you might start getting advancements from that compartmentalized robot or humanoid robot that’s going out there and living a unique life.

[00:30:27] Preston Pysh: Would you agree with that, Jeff, or would you disagree with something like that? 

[00:30:30] Jeff Booth: Yeah, so I don’t see, and I’m going to be interested to watch some of your shows and that point of view, so my mind is open. But if you said, what do I believe? I don’t believe it at all. I believe what you’re hearing. Through centralized AI companies telling you what they want you to hear, to be able to drive centralized structure.

[00:30:51] Jeff Booth: And then they’re not doing it on purpose. They’re doing it to try to get in the treat market, and they’re getting bigger and bigger to extract most of the canes from that and three or four companies and all their employees in that. So they’re just trying to compete, provide, I’m going to win the race. With all these models or all the models that most people are using are these centralized models.

[00:31:13] Jeff Booth: So what would change that? Now you and I have also seen what’s changing that too, where people to watch all of this, or I’m able to watch you, you’re able to watch all of this unfold is based on Bitcoin and based on ster and other things you’re saying. People take these models, compressed them, have an agent that’s on a pub key that is the division of labor narrowly defined, but the agent doesn’t have to be coerced by other centralized models, it can’t be, it’s an agent that’s very, very narrow.

[00:31:45] Jeff Booth: Now you can string together a whole bunch of these agents and they build up your brain of a robot that would look very different because it couldn’t be controlled, couldn’t be controlled by this. It would get better, better, better.

[00:31:57] Jeff Booth: And just like we, just like you and I are two different fractals of value. Creating people that have very different strengths and weaknesses that we add to the world. With all eight other 8 billion people adding their strengths and weaknesses to the world. And so if you had these looking like this and these individual strengths and a coalescing that couldn’t be controlled, then I see a very different path.

[00:32:22] Jeff Booth: That’s the path I think it’s going to happen. We’re very early on that path and that path isn’t guaranteed because there’s so much control from the centralized diet and that bigger game in the centralized AI is a government game too. Because you have a geopolitical game between us, Russia, China, india wanting to control ai.

[00:32:46] Jeff Booth: When it’s virtually going to be impossible to control ai. There’s going to be, like, in that world you would’ve a couple companies controlling AI on each side and all the war games underneath it. What you’re thinking in that phase for control, it would be really confusing.

[00:33:02] Preston Pysh: I think you’re already seeing somewhat of that bifurcation playing out where China is, the centralized government ai. I would like to think that in the US it’s open and that the government’s not nearly as involved as China, but I think the government is involved.

[00:33:17] Jeff Booth: It’s not. It’s just like you believe the natural belief you have is China is selling those cars at a loss. Because those people are bad. It’s just a belief that you have in your own system of control. And so remember Deep Sea came out of China. It was open source. And blew the open source. And so there’s tons of these models coming out of China. Why? Because they can download the same, they can reverse engineer these models.

[00:33:42] Jeff Booth: Compress them, put them out as open source and send a shockwave through a rest of a control structure that is doing something different now. What about the fairy frontage for these models? What does that look like? The stuff that we can’t see yet?

[00:33:55] Preston Pysh: Yeah. Mind-blowing stuff. Crazy. I just can’t even imagine where this is going.

[00:33:59] Preston Pysh: Let’s talk about demographics really fast. So you see all of these declining populations in developed nations. And it only adds more fuel to the fire of everything we’re talking about and help people understand why, first of all. And then, I guess some of your thoughts on that trend, and I guess why you see that being important, whether you see that trend changing and just your overall thoughts in general on demographics.

[00:34:29] Jeff Booth: I think primarily demographics is, I’m not a demographics expert at all, but let’s say you see a general move all over the world is when standard of living rises, people have less children. What would that mean? We want our genes to survive and thrive, and when there’s infant mortality, we have children to make sure that that happens.

[00:34:52] Jeff Booth: That’s probably the biological reason. And then, and standard delivering rises. We uplift children. You add to that most people are delay having children because they can’t afford, they don’t think they can afford children, and you get a massive decline because people are waiting and waiting and waiting or saying, I don’t need to have this.

[00:35:11] Jeff Booth: We’re so stuck in their fear of what their kids are going to grow up in, in the future world. And they’re scared to have children. And so what? All these things, it’s just one more kind of giant thing that people are. In their bubble and worried about from their bubble or in the theat world, it is contributing to the fear, like name one problem, any global problem that you care about.

[00:35:35] Jeff Booth: I’m not talking to your audience, not you, Preston, that you care about. That could be solved by just that by debasing money. The problem that you’re worried about is from the debate spent money. From the control of money, every single problem. Yeah. Where the opposite system would provide opposite results.

[00:35:53] Jeff Booth: So what does that mean? Well, I would think, and even in Bitcoin, when I say 90% of Bitcoin, are they measuring it from a fiat instrument? What does that mean? They’re giving more strength to a world that’s centralizing us. Yeah, right. And so what I expect those people to do, sell their Bitcoin back to the fiat paper, and then the fiat papers be devalued again and again and again.

[00:36:19] Jeff Booth: So they might look pure rich for a while in that. But what does that mean? Like when I say that, it means we are so early in this transition. What does that mean? This transition is going to be chaotic. It is going to be, where you’re putting your energy in the transition. It will be less chaotic for you.

[00:36:37] Jeff Booth: But these things are tied because they’re, all, the demographics is tied to it. The chaplain and labor purchase for where old labor is treated fairly. So what you have is nations around the world, and this is happening in Bitcoin too, right? And you have this base layer that if it saves decentralized and secure, which you are a part of, making sure if you run a note, you contribute your time to a system that is for you, right?

[00:37:04] Jeff Booth: If you’re spending in that currency, you’re contributing to a global free market that is for yield. And I could say the same things, the ops, if you’re not. You’re contributing to a world that’s extracting from you at a rate, and I’m not making any judgment what people should do or shouldn’t do, but they can ask themselves, do I have agency in the world that I’m creating or do I not?

[00:37:28] Jeff Booth: What you’ll see, and we see this in Bitcoin because we’re still far into it and we’re seeing all of these things emerge, but when people move more of their time to Bitcoin, their lives get better. They see that they want to have children. It would be just a mere reflection of their belief set playing back, which would be true in the natural state of the free market and everything would be just, yeah, playing out.

[00:37:51] Jeff Booth: And the more people there, if very few people understand what we’re talking about right now, they’re still stuck in this other system, then it’s going to be chaotic.

[00:38:00] Preston Pysh: Yeah. If you could, so looking back at your book, The Price of Tomorrow, did you write it in 2019, Jeff, or did it get released in 2019?

[00:38:07] Jeff Booth: Yeah, I re-released in 2019. In January, 2020. It was on Amazon. 

[00:38:12] Preston Pysh: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So we’re already a half a decade in on the book. If you had to rewrite or add chapters, what would you, looking at the assessment of what was in it versus what you wish maybe could be added or should have also been in it? What would you put? 

[00:38:30] Jeff Booth: I would’ve gone deeper on energy. I would’ve gone deeper on nuclear, and I think at that time I probably had a bias too, on that specific technology because it was one of those ones that was excluded from my dataset intentionally. I think potentially in that you start to learn more of how you thought, how when you look and what different changes.

[00:38:52] Jeff Booth: That would be one, I would for sure go deeper on. And then I don’t think I would’ve written anymore on Bitcoin at the time because I would now, because I’m so much deeper on what that looks like at that time. At that time I, when I said this on many podcasts, I had a 5% probability in my mind Bitcoin would fail.

[00:39:13] Jeff Booth: In time and came with that 5% probability is understanding that we’d never lived in a global free market. That meant we had to be part of the problem. We use things that provide us more value each day. We lived in this other system that was extracting that value, but that meant before or 5,000 years we were in a zero sum game, that we must have been part of the zero sum game.

[00:39:36] Jeff Booth: And I figured there’s no way that quite could resolve that paradox because it’s not somebody else. It’s not. It’s us that won’t let that. And so if you figure it’s us, and there’s all of this history. It shows that you’re not going to get out of this trap. Yeah. Then you have to have a really high bar on clients remaining decentralized and secure, and it was through that high bar trying to break Bitcoin.

[00:40:03] Jeff Booth: My actions changed. I contributed more of my time. I started running and out. I started spending and we started the venture capital company together to invest in others that were building onto it together. It was that I understood. I had agency. In the world I wanted to see and nobody could take my agency.

[00:40:23] Jeff Booth: Because that agency was with tens of thousands of other notes that also had agency that were protecting this. And no matter what the system and did or anything else, I had agency that changed because I realized by doing that I had agency. Now I wanted to protect that. I wanted to spend more time.

[00:40:42] Jeff Booth: I spent a lot of time teaching others or helping others to see that they have agency too. And now that I wouldn’t have changed the book at that time, but I sure have learned a lot from that time. And if I were tor something more, I would write on this piece because I think there’s many, many people still tracked and the world that don’t realize that the jail cell door is open so they can walk over having an agency.

[00:41:06] Jeff Booth: They have a state agency in the world that they want to create. And it doesn’t have to be one of fear and coercion and control. It can be one of hope, truth and abundance.

[00:41:15] Preston Pysh: What a powerful statement. I don’t even want to ask another question because I want to end it on that. That is such a powerful statement.

[00:41:21] Preston Pysh: Jeff, thank you so much. Mostly for just being a close friend and somebody that’s always providing just keen insights and things like that. I just feel super blessed to be able to call you a friend and somebody that I can always call on and get just really sound advice from. So, thanks for coming.

[00:41:41] Jeff Booth: Right back at you and I can’t wait for this new part of the journey, it’s going to be fun. 

[00:41:45] Jeff Booth: I’m excited. I’m going to be an avid listener. 

[00:41:47] Preston Pysh: I’m excited to cover it. I’m just really excited about all these things, and the thing that I’ve learned from doing this show for a decade is if you do have an interest in something and you just kind of reach out to experts and bring them on for conversations, you can just share in this learning experience.

[00:42:04] Preston Pysh: I’m learning every show I do, I’m learning right along with the audience and the guests that come on. And it’s just a really, really fun experience. So I’m looking forward to covering some of this stuff, and I want to emphasize this. I’m still going to cover Bitcoin. I’m still going to be bringing on guests to talk about Bitcoin as well, but it’s going to be in addition to all these other things, and hopefully I’m able to kind of stitch it all together and provide the holistic pictures.

[00:42:29] Preston Pysh: What I’m really trying to do of where we’re going, man, where are we going in this coming decade? It’s going to be nuts, but it’s going to be fun. It’s going to be fun, and it’s going to be, I believe it’s going to be a very abundant world for those that are moving away from that fear of the legacy fiat entrapment prison cell. And like Jeff said, the door is wide open for those that want to choose to walk out of it.

[00:42:54] Preston Pysh: So, very exciting stuff. We’re going to have a link to Jeff’s book in the show notes. Anything else? You’re not really active on X. You’re more active on Nostr these days from what I understand, Jeff.

[00:43:04] Preston Pysh: Any other highlights that you want to put out there or things that you want to promote?

[00:43:08] Jeff Booth: No. Yeah, just, I’m just looking forward to following you and you’re learning adventure on this. It’s going to be fun to watch. 

[00:43:16] Preston Pysh: Thanks, Jeff. Thank you so much for making time. 

[00:43:19] Jeff Booth: Thank you.

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