[00:01:50] Preston Pysh: You took the time and read the whole thing, and you did an amazing job. And on top of that, the book is exemplary. And I truly mean this. You can tell I’ve read a lot of books in my day and, and this book is so good. You do an amazing job. Just kind of like the organization of it.

[00:02:10] Preston Pysh: I mean, everybody knows your superpower is to be able to compress like crazy amounts of information into much more digestible soundbites. And you do this in book form in a way that you cover so much ground, but you do it in such a concise and efficient way. That for me, as far as books that I hand out to family and friends, like this is at the top of the list. It was so well done. I really, really mean this. So bravo. Kudos to you because I couldn’t imagine how hard this was to piece together.

[00:02:43] Natalie Brunell: Well, thank you so, so much, Preston. All right. Put up your QR code. Where do I send the Bitcoin that we talked about? I really, truly, that means the world coming from you because you’re someone who I’ve looked up to for so long. It’s an honor to be on your show. I’m a long, long, long, long, long time listener.

[00:02:57] Natalie Brunell: You’ve taught me so much. So thank you. That’s just such an honor to hear from you.

[00:03:02] Preston Pysh: Okay, so here’s where I want to start, and it might not be in an area that you’re expecting. I get this sense that, and I don’t know this, I know you personally, and I have met your mother, very shortly when I was in St. Louis, and I get this sense that you’re like carrying on this dream that she has had, not just for you, but you’re carrying it on in a much bigger theme and a broader theme of hope and this American dream that I think for you as a girl growing up, and you talk about this in your book.

[00:03:37] Preston Pysh: Your mom had this vision of hope and prosperity by coming to America, and then when you were in your teens, this was like shattered right before your eyes and it seems that you’re like carrying on this mission that she had instilled in your family but you’re doing it on a national level and trying to bring hope to other people, and Bitcoin is the talking point as the solution, but you’re doing an amazing job at defining the problem of like, why that hope wasn’t there.

[00:04:09] Preston Pysh: Is that what you’re really doing? Because until I read your book, I never like pieced that together or saw that from you until I was able to kind of read it on the pages.

[00:04:18] Natalie Brunell: Well, that’s interesting to hear from you because I do think that my mom made the biggest impression on me of anyone in the world, and that started very young because I just watched her work so, so, so hard and dream so, so, so big. But it was almost as if she was dreaming for her children because you know, by the time you reach your late thirties, early forties, and I’m around the age that my mom actually decided to come to the U.S. or was finally able to, and not a lot of people would take that chance and make all those sacrifices to say, you know what? I’m going to move. I don’t know the language.

[00:04:54] Natalie Brunell: I’m going to pick up everything I have and start over from scratch, and I don’t know what’s going to happen. I have no certainty. But I’m going to do it because this will offer a better life for my kids. It was so selfless. So watching my parents work as hard as they did growing up and the conditions that we sort of lived in, where my parents were willing to sleep on the sofa and my brother and I had our rooms because we were living in a small apartment and they, you know, crack of dawn, getting up to scrape the car of the snow in Chicago and getting home late.

[00:05:23] Natalie Brunell: I was just like, wow, this sacrifice is something that I can’t take for granted, and so I always wanted to work to justify all the sacrifices they made. I think that that was my driving force. And so it’s funny because if you read the book too, you’ll see I kind of struggled in terms of they wanted me to become a doctor or a lawyer or work in government because they associated all of those with economic stability. And here I am saying I want to work in television.

[00:05:49] Preston Pysh: Yeah.

[00:05:50] Natalie Brunell: Hey mom and dad, I’m going to Hollywood. And I think that, you know, normal parents might say, Hey, that that’s probably not the best decision. That’s a little risky. And my mom was like, you know what? Go do that. Go dream big. You can do it. You can make anything happen.

[00:06:04] Natalie Brunell: Like she just. Really represented this idea that the American Dream stands for, which is that you can do anything coming from any background. If you just work hard, if you get an education, if you’re a good person, just go for it. So that has carried with me, and I think that that promise has died for a lot of people, or they think that it’s dead.

[00:06:21] Natalie Brunell: And that’s why I think Bitcoin is so imperative for everyone to study because it restored my hope, it restored my belief, and not just the American dream, but really this universal one that I think breaks all the divides and you know, the differences among us. We all need a sense of hope for the future.

[00:06:37] Preston Pysh: Why did they initially go to Chicago?

[00:06:40] Natalie Brunell: Because everyone from Poland comes to Chicago. It has this massive community. so the way that my parents were finally able to come is because of my mom’s brother. So he married an American and he came out earlier, and then there’s an application process. So we came out, I was five years old, and then I had to wait another 13 years to become a citizen. So I was 18 years old just in time for college. When I got my citizenship, I had my alien registration card until then.

[00:07:09] Preston Pysh: Why did it take that long?

[00:07:11] Natalie Brunell: Because that’s how long the immigration process takes.

[00:07:13] Preston Pysh: Oh my God.

[00:07:14] Natalie Brunell: I mean, there are so, so many things I wish I could fix about the immigration system. But yeah, we waited in line for a very, very, very long time. And you know, until you become a citizen, you, at least at the time in the nineties, like my brother for example, he didn’t qualify for grants or scholarships when he was going to school. Things were really, really tough for him. That’s why I’ve always felt like, I felt guilty in a weird way because I was lucky.

[00:07:34] Natalie Brunell: I was five. I assimilated very quickly. I learned the language very quickly for my parents and for my brother, because my brother was older, he was 16 and a half when we came. It was so much tougher. And so, again, that for me, it was like I have to make it. Like if there’s one person in my family that’s going to make it, it’s got be me. And I want to help them and build on the legacy that they created and started.

[00:07:56] Preston Pysh: Yeah. And in the book it talks about how, so you describe living in the apartment and then it seemed like things were getting better for your family there. You know, after five years they went and they were able to eventually go buy a house and everything was kind of trending in the right direction.

[00:08:12] Preston Pysh: And then the great financial crisis hit in ’08 and it was just like. An absolute, you know, devastation for the family. And so it was almost like that trend of progress was like, oh my gosh, like the American dream is playing out and this is working only to be like the rug pulled out underneath the family.

[00:08:31] Preston Pysh: It almost in a way made it worse because it was almost like the whole thing was fake or a facade than when it was, you’re right at this prime moment in your life where you’re getting ready to go off to college. I think the timeline is around that point right after. You were in college as this was playing out.

[00:08:49] Preston Pysh: I just can only imagine from seeing your parents through that and how much that kind of incentivized your future mission in your life.

[00:08:58] Natalie Brunell: Well, you described it. I mean, rug pull is exactly what happened and what it felt like for millions of Americans around the country. Because you know, like I said before, my parents played by all the rules.

[00:09:08] Natalie Brunell: And then suddenly they were filing for bankruptcy. My dad had had a good job. He was an electrician. My mom actually worked for a bank, but then she wanted to start her own business and it all just so quickly fell apart. My parents are, I’ve heard a lot of immigrant parents be similar in this way, that they were filled with so much shame they didn’t even want to share how bad it was.

[00:09:27] Natalie Brunell: But I could just see it. And it really devastated me. And I saw where the world was going and I graduated into that recession and I thought, where is the American dream? Where is this promise that, oh, you go to the school, you get the good grades, and where’s that job waiting for me so that I can pay off my student loan debt?

[00:09:43] Natalie Brunell: And it wasn’t there. And I think that really did spark a fire in me to want to become an investigative journalist because. As you know, in the wake of the great financial crisis, the Occupy Wall Street movement quickly rose up. And I really resonated with it.

[00:09:58] Natalie Brunell: I thought absolutely we do. Why are there some people at the very top who have made so, so, so much money, and the average person that has been productive and paid their taxes and they just wanted to provide for their families, they’re the ones losing their homes, but these bankers are getting bailed out.

[00:10:13] Natalie Brunell: No one’s going to jail like, this is not fair, and someone needs to come in and fix it and maybe redistribute the wealth. That’s where, I mean, I look back now and I understand why people are crying out for fixes that come from the government, because where else is the fix supposed to come from, right?

[00:10:30] Natalie Brunell: You associate these massive corporations with greed and you think, well, someone has to come in. And regulate it or prevent that from growing and happening and empower the average person. I didn’t realize that it was the system itself that was so corrupted that we had a monopoly over money that led to this incredible wealth concentration and caused the average worker to be left out and taxed through inflation. And until I learned that, I really didn’t feel a lot of hope for the future, and I felt just as disillusioned by capitalism as so many people do today.

[00:11:03] Preston Pysh: Well, this wasn’t in your book, but you and I have had conversations where you told me when you were working in the media space, in the news reporting space, how even some of the stories that you’d be covering we’re being somewhat silenced or just not being presented in the way that you’re there on the ground, like doing the research and doing the interviews and you’re like, this person is an absolute parasite to society. But it’s not being like, the reporting and where I want to take the reporting is just not allowing me to broadcast that message.

[00:11:34] Preston Pysh: So. I’m curious if your time in the media space, particularly where you were reporting in the past, was kind of just more fuel on the fire to, for you that there’s just something seriously broke. Like there’s something, I can’t put my finger on it, but there’s something really, really broke with the world right now.

[00:11:53] Natalie Brunell: Oh, absolutely. I was reporting on all the symptoms and I was interviewing families that felt so much like I was interviewing my mom and dad, just like, yeah, what is going on? This is really unfair. I’m working harder than ever. Why can’t I afford the cost of education, the cost of healthcare housing was becoming so out of reach for more and more people.

[00:12:15] Natalie Brunell: And so I could relate to a lot of the people I interviewed, but you’re absolutely right. There were many instances where I would start digging and I would start following the money. And my stories were not able to always air because there were very powerful, influential people who had access and who I think that some of the networks did not want to scare off or upset.

[00:12:39] Natalie Brunell: And so my story, some of them didn’t air and that was very, very frustrating ‘because it happened. Not just once in my career, but a few times where I worked really hard on some investigations and those stories never saw the light of day or they were later reported on by someone else, by a network that was willing to cover it.

[00:12:57] Natalie Brunell: But again, it’s like, it really does represent the overall system though, where it protects the incumbents, it protects those at the top, at the core of that system, at the expense of everyone else. It privatizes the gains and socializes all the losses, and the average person is left holding the bag. Just like my parents were. And it’s like, this is not capitalism. This is not representative of the American dream.

[00:13:18] Natalie Brunell: We need something that’s going to address, strike at the heart of that corruption, and I didn’t realize that the solution actually did exist, which is Bitcoin. And so when I did finally come to the conclusion that we have a solution that we can all embrace and it’s the most accessible form of capital for the average person to empower themselves economically.

[00:13:38] Natalie Brunell: That’s when I started to realize like this is, this might be my calling because my whole background has pretty much primed me and set me up for this, not just my family’s experience, but also spending 10 years reporting and communicating and doing stories like this is what I’m now meant to do. I have to share and spread the message of Bitcoin.

[00:13:55] Preston Pysh: So just for the listener, so the first half of the book. Natalie goes into a lot of detail describing the problem, and she does it from a bunch of different vantage points so that the reader can kind of see it from, you talk to anybody that’s a millennial or younger and their biggest gripe is, I can’t afford anything.

[00:14:14] Preston Pysh: I can’t go out there and buy a house with these new interest rates. Like, I’m never going to be able to buy a house. And like, that’s just like one facet of the general story that you’re talking about where, you know, people walking around, they all know something’s wrong. They say, oh, well it might be this political point of view, or it might be this policy that’s in place.

[00:14:32] Preston Pysh: And they’re pointing at effects of the problem. They’re not actually pointing at the problem. And what I love about the first half of the book is that you cover the problem in tons of detail. You also show back to the legacy financial system as to how that is the root of all these downstream problems that everybody’s experiencing, but they might not really understand what the source is that’s way upstream of all of it.

[00:15:01] Preston Pysh: And whether you believe Bitcoin’s the solution to these problems or not. The thing I really like about your book, you don’t even really talk about Bitcoin until the second half because you’re doing such a great job. Really kind of laying out the root because and how it points to this breakdown of fiat money.

[00:15:19] Preston Pysh: It was just so well done and for people that this is the message that I would say for the listeners, the person who is listening to this, you know, there’s something wrong with the world. You also know that socialism isn’t the answer, right? Because that’s the other thing, Natalie is, so many people that would’ve experienced what you did in your past of all these problems and these effects.

[00:15:41] Preston Pysh: They’re looking at it and they’re saying, well, it’s capitalism. Capitalism’s broke, and therefore we have got to try something different. Therefore, let’s elect a socialist. You didn’t end with that conclusion. You ended with a very different conclusion. So I guess my question for you is, what allowed you to see a different path than socialism?

[00:16:05] Natalie Brunell: Well, first of all, I do want to say I think a lot of people feel frustrated with capitalism because they associate it with sort of the greed that they think they see in corporations and the wealth concentration. But we really haven’t had capitalism because capitalism means that risk is born by those who take it.

[00:16:21] Natalie Brunell: And it’s not socialized to us. All of all the rest of us, the hard workers in the middle class so to speak, it would actually be a very, very different system. If we saw capitalism, we wouldn’t have the bailouts, we wouldn’t have the constant balance sheet interventions. We wouldn’t have a system that essentially protects the incumbents and those at the core, at the expense of everyone else.

[00:16:40] Natalie Brunell: So I just want to say to people, what I realized is I didn’t even understand capitalism. Because I thought we had it here and we don’t. You always do such a great job of talking about this as well. And capitalism is actually the best system that protects our rights and also creates opportunities for human flourishing and abundance and the most productivity.

[00:16:59] Natalie Brunell: But you have to start with capital. And when the capital is essentially government IOUs from an issuer that’s $38 trillion in debt, that’s not a system that you can really build upon and trust, right? And so, but we’ve created this mirage that this is the system and we’ve created this. Idea that treasuries should underpin the entire system.

[00:17:18] Natalie Brunell: It’s completely debt driven, and that’s why we have to print all this money just to keep the ball rolling and it just gets harder and harder for the average person to sort of make it. And so my book at the very beginning focuses a lot on just what is inflation. And I’ve shared before actually that when I was a reporter.

[00:17:34] Natalie Brunell: We would share the CPI number, right? Yeah. And it was kind of an afterthought. I didn’t think about it at all. In fact, the years of 2010 to 2020 saw like an average of less than 2% inflation. And yet all of these things became so much more expensive in that decade. The cost of homes, stock valuations went crazy.

[00:17:54] Natalie Brunell: Healthcare costs, healthcare premiums, insurance, and it’s like, wait, what happened here? Because you’re telling me that inflation is around 2%, but my cost of living went up 40, 50%. There’s a disconnect here. And so I think it’s important to help people understand. What is actually happening with our money and the fact that the money supply is constantly being expanded is not just a problem, but it’s something that you can see when you look across asset classes.

[00:18:19] Natalie Brunell: You can see how, you know, stocks have just skyrocketed. Homes have skyrocketed. Paychecks haven’t. And so we need to recognize that disconnect and then dig into what’s actually happening because this is why the average person can’t save for the future. And you know, you might celebrate that, hey, well I’ve been saving in in my home, right?

[00:18:37] Natalie Brunell: A lot of people have used real estate to create wealth or build their family nest egg. But have you really made a lot on, when you look at the money supply and how much that’s increased, like if you actually zoom in, have you just been treading water and now you have to pay more in maintenance costs and property taxes and when you go to sell you’re just going to have to buy another overinflated, expensive home that’s not really worth it.

[00:19:00] Natalie Brunell: It’s like we don’t really understand what value actually is. I think prices have just been completely detached from reality and so i’m trying to break that down in a simple way that the average person can sit back like I did when I learned about Bitcoin and say, oh my gosh, I had no idea. I didn’t realize, and now I need to figure out a way to empower myself in a system where your money’s a melting ice cube.

[00:19:24] Preston Pysh: And you do that in the book. You have an example with wine when you’re talking about the deletion, which is amazing. The one that I particularly like the best was this example that you provided with just like airline tickets when they’ve overbooked. And I think it’s such a great analogy for people to understand.

[00:19:43] Preston Pysh: Well, heck, right now, like we’re watching the Bitcoin price get crushed relative to the dollar and people are confused and they’re wondering like, what in the world’s happening? But when you understand this analogy that you put in the book as far as you know, plane tickets and it’s the whole credit system is just a bunch of promises.

[00:20:02] Preston Pysh: To get to the root of the promises that have been made in this past cycle, you have to get to baseline dollars, which there’s only a few of them, relatively speaking in the system relative to the amount of promises and credit that’s in the system and when the flight is overbooked, you find out real fast who actually holds the baseline ticket and who doesn’t, and what the going rate or price is to get one of those tickets.

[00:20:27] Preston Pysh: And there’s so much to kind of wrap your head around in this space. And I guess my question out of all of this, Natalie, is because it can be really frustrating from an education standpoint, just like that idea that we talked about. You start telling people that Bitcoin is hope and it that it can be the salvation to all these problems, but then people see the volatility and they see all this.

[00:20:48] Preston Pysh: How do you handle those conversations? Because I think there’s a lot of people that are listening and are wanting some advice from somebody who’s had a lot of those conversations.

[00:20:58] Preston Pysh: How do you explain things like that to somebody that’s coming with very surface level knowledge on the topic to help them bridge that gap of their lack of knowledge to where you’re trying to get them to fully grasp and understand what powerful thing that they potentially hold.

[00:21:16] Natalie Brunell: I think it’s interesting what you’re alluding to because I do say Bitcoin is hope a lot, right? It’s this antidote, it’s this ultimate solution, but it’s so funny. Human nature, like you can tell someone, Hey, don’t worry, everything’s going to be great. And they’ll sort of just like shrug and not pay attention.

[00:21:29] Natalie Brunell: Tell them that the world is on fire and something bad is about to happen and you have their full undivided attention. And believe me, I know that really well from working in news because if it bleeds, it leads and it’s like you can really sell panic. And I’m actually trying to do the opposite because I think the thing that people most need is a feeling of, I can do this, the future can be better than the present. I can make it, I can achieve, I can empower myself.

[00:21:54] Natalie Brunell: And that’s really ultimately kind of the underlying. Message of the book is like, it’s not too late and you can take control over your time again. And that’s what I think is what money allows us to do is control our time again when we feel this constant pressure on our backs.

[00:22:12] Natalie Brunell: You’ve actually talked about this, I think on my show before or another show. I think it’s led to so much of the decay morally that we see in society when every single member of the household has pressure on them to provide and it never feels like enough.

[00:22:25] Natalie Brunell: Now you need three incomes for what you used to be able to afford on one income, and you see us getting more and more divided and negative online and we all use social media, I think as this tool.

[00:22:36] Natalie Brunell: Like if you’re in a great place, you use it as a tool to get more information and you know, improve yourself, create businesses. But if you’re in a bad place, you use it to vet your frustration and probably find scapegoats and find other people. You know, misery loves company and we’re in this very, very divided, and I think just like a place of mental angst where people just feel so resentful and frustrated of how far they’ve, you know, fallen behind.

[00:23:02] Natalie Brunell: And it’s not your fault. Like part of the book is saying like, you are working hard and acknowledging the fact that like you have put in this work and you deserve to feel like you have control over your time and your future. And that’s what Bitcoin offers you and you know, Bitcoin is, in my opinion, the best solution, but it’s really just representative, a good form of money that allows you to save for the future because it cannot be debased, because it is scarce, because it is divisible, because it is portable, because it, you know, answers to all of these defects that came before in other forms of money.

[00:23:33] Natalie Brunell: That’s like the whole message is for the first time in human history, we have a form of money where the average person can start to accumulate. Apolitical globally traded capital to start to have a seat at the table and plan for their lives, their families drop their time preference and that’s what makes me so excited and also why I think that it’s so important to share this message with the average person who feels left behind .

[00:23:57] Preston Pysh: In the second part of the book when you’re going through explaining Bitcoin from somebody that literally knows nothing, to really quite comprehensive overview of how it works, why it works. Why it’s sustainable, why it’s decentralized, like all of those things. I had this moment where I’m listening to all of it and for whatever reason I started hearing it from like this outsider, like objective like point of view almost as if I would had never heard of Bitcoin. And I’m just like thinking through how an outsider that’s never heard about any of this stuff would just be hearing it all.

[00:24:32] Preston Pysh: Like the difficulty adjustment and the mining process and like all of it. It’s a lot to take in. We’re talking about it all the time, and to us, like your example at the beginning of the book, the fish in the water, right. I think for us, we’re in the space and we’re super deep, and it’s just kinda like, oh yeah, there’s a difficulty adjustment.

[00:24:49] Preston Pysh: It happens every two weeks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And with just like second nature. But when you look at it from that first point of view, like you’ve never heard of it and you’re hearing it for the first time, I would just think that like trying to cover the whole thing. And the way that you did so well in the book was, I guess my question is, what was the hardest part to like explain it in a simple, digestible like, organized way?

[00:25:16] Preston Pysh: Did you struggle with this part of the book when you were writing it? And if so, what was the hardest part for you to try to piece together as you’re making it simple for and trust me? She made it very simple for everybody to understand. I’m just curious if you had challenges as you were trying to like organize all of this because it’s so much to like cover.

[00:25:37] Natalie Brunell: This book was the most challenging but rewarding project of my entire career. You know, TV news, journalism, I’ve been accustomed to writing two minute scripts, like two minutes is actually a luxury in television. Usually I’d have to say the full story in about a minute to a minute and a half.

[00:25:54] Natalie Brunell: And so having 200 pages, you would think that that’s kind of a luxury. But still, you know, Bitcoin is so complicated. I mean, people spend years studying it. And it took me years to really, really learn it. So you have to come up with the right analogies that simplify it.

[00:26:09] Natalie Brunell: And for the average person who’s busy, who doesn’t have a degree in economics or engineering finance, like you really have to break it down and distill it in a way that’s going to make sense to them and resonate with them.

[00:26:21] Natalie Brunell: I feel like a, I’m standing on the shoulders of giants because I’ve read every single book in the space, some of them several times. And so I wanted to pull out sort of the, the lessons and what resonated with me most from sort of each of those works and just give my own spin, my own kind of analogies to them.

[00:26:39] Natalie Brunell: And also I have to say like no one does anything great alone, and I had a phenomenal team. Maura Phelan, my book agent, and Alison Gustavson, who’s an incredible writer and editor. We literally had Zoom calls every single week where we poured over every chapter, every word. I mean, words are my currency in the communication industry, and like we wanted to make sure, does this word have the wrong connotation? Will people read it this way?

[00:27:03] Natalie Brunell: You have no idea how much time went into choosing every single word that really went into this book, and it was a very time consuming, but very just amazing, rewarding process because I really think that we got it right. Like this is the book that I hope everyone starts their journey with.

[00:27:19] Natalie Brunell: And again, there are fantastic books in the space. I hope mine serves as maybe an appetizer for the Bitcoin standard, the big print inventing Bitcoin, the broken money. But I just really wanted this amazing entry point that someone could say, okay. I get it now. I have to, I still have to learn more. It’s not like this is the be all. You really need to dig in more because some of these topics are so complex, but I want it to be a really approachable entry point.

[00:27:43] Preston Pysh: Well, you nailed that, like when I was done with the book and I’m thinking, okay, so who does this apply to? It is the broadest audience of somebody that literally knows nothing about finance or economics.

[00:27:55] Preston Pysh: But you get them up to speed on like the most important issues, in my humble opinion that could be covered on the topic to clearly define the problem and then clearly define the solution that’s out there. Like truly Natalie, it’s that perfect. So yeah, kudos to you. It was awesome.

[00:28:13] Preston Pysh: One of the things that you covered in the book, and I really like this because I don’t hear a lot of people talking about this idea, is that the energy is worth it. You’re comparing the energy expense that Bitcoin has versus like what does this blob of a fiat system cost and energy on an annualized basis as we compare that relative to Bitcoin being a settlement layer.

[00:28:38] Preston Pysh: Talk to us a little bit about that idea and just anything else that you have learned through all your interviews and you know, years of covering the space as it relates to energy and why the Bitcoin network is worth it.

[00:28:52] Natalie Brunell: So I love that Bitcoin actually changed my perspective on, and opened my eyes to the importance of energy itself. Like energy is the currency of the universe. And I never really thought about it and how important it is and where our electricity actually comes from.

[00:29:09] Natalie Brunell: I mean, people conflate energy and electricity and we, we don’t realize that it’s what you mentioned on my show, right?

[00:29:16] Natalie Brunell: And what Luke Gromen writes about. It doesn’t come from the light switch. There’s a whole industry and process that has so many different inputs and energy really is the most important. It’s that first input that defines everything and defines so many of the costs of everything that we have. And Bitcoin is tied to energy, and it is the one thing that.

[00:29:35] Natalie Brunell: Nobody can print, you cannot create it, you cannot destroy it. And that kind of fundamental lesson, I think already kind of, you take a step back and you realize, oh, this is something that is way, way bigger than myself and bigger of a concept that I have to dig into. Because people can just say, oh, something uses too much energy.

[00:29:53] Natalie Brunell: Well, how does it use that energy? And why does it use that energy? And when you dig in, and one of the things I share in that chapter is. Not only does Bitcoin not even use that much energy, especially when you compare it to other industries, and I show kind of the the pie chart of different industries, but also the way that it uses, it actually moves us into a world where we can have more abundance of resources of energy, be able to deploy electricity in even remote places, capture things like stranded or wasted energy.

[00:30:23] Natalie Brunell: It moves us into a more energy abundant world, and we need energy. I mean, we see it daily. I think it’s funny that now some of the headlines about energy use for Bitcoin have faded because AI is going to use a lot of energy, and I guess everyone’s okay with the data centers, you know, slurping up energy.

[00:30:39] Natalie Brunell: Like it’s a reality that we have to think about these things. And I think, again, like you just, you have to break it down simply to the average person because they’ll hear these headlines and they get mad at the companies and they don’t actually realize what’s happening, what it takes, the supply, the demand, the resources.

[00:30:55] Natalie Brunell: And I’m trying to connect those dots for people in a more approachable way. Because as you can see, I mean that’s one of the biggest conversations right now. How are we going to not just, you know, stabilize the grid, but grow it, grow it in a way that meets the demand that we’re going to have from all these data centers in an artificial intelligence driven world.

[00:31:12] Natalie Brunell: And we’re not there yet, and we’ve really put that on the back burner over the last 20 years. And we can’t just like wave our hands and suddenly build up all this infrastructure. It doesn’t come from thin air. The way that we can print units in the system. We have to build things. We have to have the skilled labor, we have to have, you know, the connections to the energy.

[00:31:29] Natalie Brunell: We can’t transport it. Like we have to think about all of these inputs, and I think so many of us don’t, or they take it for granted.

[00:31:36] Preston Pysh: You talk a little bit about the human rights implications of this, and particularly on the energy front as well. What was your favorite human rights story that you’ve, it could be from the book or it could just be from covering on your podcast through the years as it relates to Bitcoin and just the solution that it’s providing.

[00:31:56] Natalie Brunell: I mean, two of my favorites are in the book Farida and Roya. I loved their, their stories. They’re such passionate fighters for freedom and empowerment. Roya, I’m sure a lot of people are familiar with her story. I’ve had her on the show, Alex Gladstein has written about her, but she was the first female tech CEO in Afghanistan and paid her female workers in Bitcoin and even guaranteed that they would not lose money on the Bitcoin that they earned if the price was volatile.

[00:32:19] Natalie Brunell: And that has allowed many of them to. Not just achieve financial freedom, but also just achieve freedom in the sense that they aren’t tied to a banking system that requires for a man to open an account for them. They were able to use it, some of them, in order to flee when the Taliban took over again, like it truly is a freedom technology and that’s how Freedom positions it as well.

[00:32:40] Natalie Brunell: She’s from Togo, but she fleed because of persecution and her family, you know, have been. Outspoken advocates for freedom and for democracy. And their family has faced, you know, political violence as the result. And she talks about how the government, it’s still a kind of a relic of colonialism, really what they’ve done with the money there.

[00:32:59] Natalie Brunell: And the CFA Franc, where the French Treasury actually controls the currency in many countries in Africa, and they can devalue people’s savings by. 50, a hundred percent overnight. And that’s people’s times that just evaporates. Like you can’t get it back. And so she’s fighting for people to be able to save in Bitcoin in a hard asset that can’t be controlled by the government, and to root out the corruption that she’s seen in the government.

[00:33:20] Natalie Brunell: So these are very powerful stories. I think Alex Gladstein says it, well, check your financial privilege because as many problems as we have here in the west. There’s so many other problems that people face in oppressive regimes in authoritarian countries with inflation crises and currency crises. Far worse than we’ve ever seen here in the us.

[00:33:39] Preston Pysh: One of the things that, I mean, you indirectly cover this through the energy piece in the book. But in your humble opinion, why did you not talk more about why Bitcoin is different than all the other cryptos that are out there? I mean, again, Natalie, you cover it, but not in a lot of detail. And I think for a lot of people that show up to this space.

[00:34:00] Preston Pysh: They might be like, yeah, but how about Dogecoin, or how about Solana and all these other things. I guess now in the interview, why if somebody’s listening to this and that maybe they like some of these other things and maybe they’re very crypto, what is your talking point to them or why is Bitcoin different than these other things that you think is important to cover?

[00:34:22] Natalie Brunell: Well, I think that Bitcoin is foundational. It’s just a transformative technology that, once again, it fulfills the ultimate properties that make for good money that you can save in over the long term. And I really do focus more on the store of value, especially in the beginning of the book. But then I also expanded out to why.

[00:34:40] Natalie Brunell: It is also a great medium of exchange that allows us to reduce some of the frictions and the gatekeepers and the costs that exist in our current payment systems. But I really wanted to make a conscious focus on Bitcoin. I specifically talk only about Bitcoin. I don’t give energy to anything else that’s in the space because I believe that Bitcoin is the solution.

[00:35:00] Natalie Brunell: And you know, I am for Bitcoin, I’m not against anything else. And I think that when you start to speak negatively about, you know. Pick a company, pick a stock, pick a crypto. You’re just kind of inviting antagonism and you’re inviting a debate that I don’t want to take part in. If people want to experiment, I think that they should go on a journey.

[00:35:23] Natalie Brunell: It’s one that I think will, will end in the same conclusion that I came to, which is that Bitcoin is where you want your money, but I just felt like I really wanted this book to be laser focused on Bitcoin, so I don’t even. You know, it’s like that saying like, I don’t even think about you. Now I think this, I don’t even think about crypto.

[00:35:42] Preston Pysh: I love this idea of not giving energy to something else, but the only reason I bring it up is because I just see so many people that show up to the space from all these other tokens, and there’s just a ton of confusion as to if I was going to argue with my own question, Natalie, and point to why you don’t need to.

[00:36:03] Preston Pysh: You do such a great job of defining the problem upfront, and when you understand the problem, you also will quickly come to the realization that, well, in order to solve that problem, it has to be decentralized from government actors. It has to be tied to something that is scarce and desirable, like energy, you know?

[00:36:24] Preston Pysh: So you go into a lot of detail explaining the problem and what type of solution would have to exist to satisfy that problem. And you obviously pointed out at the end, but yeah.

[00:36:37] Natalie Brunell: I don’t exist in like a fantasy world where I think everyone’s just going to own Bitcoin, right? There are going to be companies, there’s going to be real estate.

[00:36:45] Natalie Brunell: I just want the values to come closer to reality, and I want the economy to be built on something truly of merit. Something that we can truly gauge prices with as opposed to what I believe to be a very chaotic. Mix of asset classes where I don’t think the valuations reflect reality anymore. Especially when it comes to like these stocks where we’re completely untethered from earnings and fundamentals. It’s literally just based on liquidity. And I think Stanley Druckenmiller even said that into the 2010s. It’s like we are untethered. It’s all based on what the Federal Reserve does and the liquidity in the system.

[00:37:22] Natalie Brunell: That’s not real value, and you always do such a great job of talking about how there’s really no more biodiversity. And we see all these monopolies springing up. It’s like, We have big pharma and big food and big tech. I actually don’t think that those would have as easy of a time rising up and existing in a capitalistic system.

[00:37:40] Natalie Brunell: With actual hard money, with something like Bitcoin at the base layer, because there would be more competition and you wouldn’t just get to rely on your scale and access to cheap credit and your connections to policy makers in order to grow, you would have to compete based on actual value. And so I hate to look out there and see, you know, things like the fast fashion and like all the stuff that’s made really fast and easy and cheap as opposed to like a hundred years ago when things were so quality and we saw it in our buildings and in clothing and in like everything felt like it was more quality, right?

[00:38:14] Natalie Brunell: And it lasted longer. And now we live in this highly beat. You know, just corrupted world where everything just feels like it has no real value to it. But a few companies have extracted so much wealth from all of us, and I just, I want to reverse that and place it on its head, and I think Bitcoin’s the best solution to do that.

[00:38:34] Preston Pysh: I’ve watched your arc of learning economics over the past five years, and I honestly, Natalie don’t know anybody, and I know the people that listen to your show and have listened to you through the years can also attest to what I’m saying here. You have got up to speed on some of the most complex economic ideas in the past five years, and I’m kind of curious.

[00:38:59] Preston Pysh: If you had to analyze, like what helped you from an idea standpoint, like what fundamental economic theory or idea helped you kind of accelerate your learning curve the most, or that you think helped you build a mental model that was so effective as you just kind of look at all the different ideas that you’ve heard or seen through the last five years?

[00:39:23] Natalie Brunell: I guess I would’ve to say Austrian economics if you would’ve reversed time 10 years and said to me. Hey, so there’s this thing called Keynesian economics versus Austrian economics. I’d be like, I have no idea what you just said. I have literally no clue. and those are the types of things I tried to leave out of the book ‘because I did want to make it really approachable for the average person, but just this idea, again, that really does focus on capital and capital accumulation, dropping your time preference accumulating capital so that you can use it for something productive in the future.

[00:39:49] Natalie Brunell: That’s really the basis of capitalism and the importance of property rights to be at the core of that because if you don’t have property rights intact, you lose so many of your other freedoms and so many freedoms kind of are second and third order effects from actually being able to hold and control your property.

[00:40:06] Natalie Brunell: And so I think I had to relearn all the things I learned in school. Yeah. I had to kind of unpack it from a different angle and you know, I was always a really good student because my immigrant parents would get really mad if I got a B, so I had to get A’s, but I never learned this. I learned like history through the, the lens of wars and battles and empires rising and falling.

[00:40:28] Natalie Brunell: But never how money affected all of these things. How currency changed, how currency affected these things. The creation of the central bank and different, you know, the banks of the different nations, like Lords of Easy Money and the Lords of Finance. I think those are the two books that I also quote.

[00:40:44] Natalie Brunell: Bitcoin is for everyone. I mean, those are the types of things where I’m like, how come I didn’t learn this in school? How come I didn’t learn the history of money? How come I didn’t learn about how our banking system actually works? ‘because that actually does empower you. And so I really encourage people to read because I just didn’t read enough.

[00:41:00] Natalie Brunell: And then I went on this crazy journey as so many of us probably did. Right. I mean, you’ve known it for a while because you were an investor for so long. I didn’t like, I did not read books about economics or monetary history, but when I did, they really opened my eyes.

[00:41:15] Preston Pysh: Yeah, you’ve been doing the show for a while now, so let’s talk about one of your favorite guests.Who is it and why?

[00:41:23] Natalie Brunell: That is so tough. This is like a 10 way tie. I mean, you’re one of my favorite guests, first of all, sucks. I always learn so much from you. I’ve truly, I’ll share who I feel like just off the top of my head, who I’ve learned the most from because I highly recommend people listen to these episodes, including I have some gems at the beginning of my show that I think some people that have started to listen to me maybe two, three years in, yeah, they don’t realize that at the very beginning of my story.

[00:41:47] Natalie Brunell: I didn’t set out for this to be my full-time career. I didn’t even know that something like that would be possible. All I wanted was to learn about Bitcoin from the people who I was following and studying and whose works I had read or listened to. I just wanted to hear their backstories. ‘because for me, I don’t know if you’re like this or any of your viewers or listeners, but.

[00:42:06] Natalie Brunell: I’ve always found biographies and autobiographies to be incredibly inspiring. Especially people who were like rags to riches stories or Overcame incredible obstacles. I love hearing those stories. I’m like, wow, if he can do it or she can do it, I can do it. So for me, I was like, I wanted to put kind of a human face to the Bitcoiners that I was following.

[00:42:26] Natalie Brunell: It’s like, okay, you’re talking about the money and you’re talking about the technology, but like, who are you people? Like, where did you come from? So I started reaching out and I wanted to hear, you know. The life stories of you and Jeff and Lynn and Michael Saylor, and all the people who influenced my journey.

[00:42:43] Natalie Brunell: I wanted to know where they came from, what they wanted to be when they grew up, what made them realize that money’s broken, what made them realize that Bitcoin is a great solution. And so I was planning on just doing a couple of episodes, like 12 episodes, and then. Calling it a day really, and returning to my news career.

[00:43:00] Natalie Brunell: Oh yeah. And then it just kind of took off and had a life of its own. I didn’t realize that there was such an audience for this type of content. And then I kept going. And so over the years I’ve had the chance to do more than 300 interviews in this space, which is just incredible. Amazing. By the way, that’s a lot in that timeline.

[00:43:18] Preston Pysh: That’s a lot of work.

[00:43:21] Natalie Brunell: I ended up leaving my job taking a chance. I had no clue what would happen, but I’ve just learned so much from you, from Lyn Alden, who’s so just thoughtful and methodical, and it’s one of the reasons why I really wanted to send an early copy of the manuscript to her, because.

[00:43:35] Natalie Brunell: I take it as a huge responsibility now that I’m on my own as a disseminator of information, like I need to make sure it’s airtight. I don’t want someone to read it who’s brilliant and has market experience and say, that’s not actually how it works. That’s not actually how it works. So she got something wrong.

[00:43:49] Natalie Brunell: I wanted it to be accurate, even though it’s highly simplified. And so Lynn read my book, Jeff Booth, who explains so thoughtfully this paradigm shift we’re going through and how inflation and deflation actually work and what it means for the future. And Michael Saylor, who has just incredible experience running a public company and is such a student of history himself and can.

[00:44:12] Natalie Brunell: Whip without an analogy or a reference from history, like no one else I’ve ever seen. I mean, it’s just, we’re so lucky to have these people, and that’s why I’ve said before, I mean, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong on the right team because you guys are all brilliant. I mean, I respect you all so much, so yeah, I’ve been very blessed.

[00:44:30] Preston Pysh: The person I was expecting for you to say is Colonel Macgregor.

[00:44:34] Natalie Brunell: Oh, well, he’s my most popular guest.

[00:44:36] Preston Pysh: Oh, you know what? Interesting. I see. I didn’t know that. Do you know why I say that, Natalie? It’s because anytime I’ve been hanging out with you. You have always brought him up.

[00:44:46] Preston Pysh: Like Preston, did you hear this interview with him? It’s like you really need to listen to his conversation. I think you would really enjoy hearing what he has to say. So I was expecting you to say that and then I had follow on questions, but you said something different.

[00:44:59] Natalie Brunell: Well, Colonel Macgregor’s my most listened to guest and you guys have very interesting connections with your military background and experience.

[00:45:06] Natalie Brunell: Yeah, yeah. I feel like. He speaks to a lot of the things that you have shared as well when it comes to the military industrial complex and how hollowed out, you know? Yes, we are at this point how dependent we are on countries like China. For critical minerals and infrastructure, and we can’t just build that back up overnight and all the trillions of dollars that we’ve spent.

[00:45:28] Natalie Brunell: On wars, and I just find it fascinating. Two people who literally come from military backgrounds who say, Hey, why are we going out and fighting all these people? Like, why are we spending trillions to kill people? We can actually create a more peaceful system if we focus on fixing the money of all things.

[00:45:43] Natalie Brunell: And so he read the book, actually, he just read the book and so he texted me this morning, so I’m going to read it. I’m proud. Oh, let’s, let’s. He said Natalie Brunes primer on Bitcoin is a must read for Americans who want to survive the developing financial crisis and come out of it with millions, straightforward and to the point.

[00:46:00] Natalie Brunell: This is precisely the kind of book Investor’s need today. So I’m thankful for his endorsement.

[00:46:04] Preston Pysh: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah, no, you on that point though that you’re saying I completely agree with him. I just don’t think that, you know, when I look at military leaders, ‘because I know a lot of them still to this day.

[00:46:16] Preston Pysh: I mean, classmates that I went to West Point with, you know, I think they’re just very delusional in the fact that they don’t realize that the reason we’ve had so much military might is because the U.S. Treasury has been the network effect of the Petrodollar system. Yeah. It gave us this huge luxury of just being able to go out and spend it at will on anything and everything that we want.

[00:46:40] Preston Pysh: And if that regime is changing, you know, dollar dominance via the Petrodollar system, which you and I are of the opinion, and Colonel Macgregor seems to be of the opinion as well, is changing, well then your ability to go out and just buy anything you want is also going to change. And it doesn’t seem like anybody.

[00:46:58] Preston Pysh: I was literally at a dinner with a guy a couple nights ago that is still in active duty service, and they do these exercises where it’s called a spar, where they’re planning out like 25 years into the future. And I asked them, I said, so for a spar, are you guys like, what are you guys using for planning purposes of your costs?

[00:47:20] Preston Pysh: Are you using a 2% inflation target for 25 years straight? And he goes. Just straight face, like, yeah, yeah, that is what we are using. We’re still using 2%. And I just burst out and laughing and he didn’t, you know, we don’t really talk economics, this guy that I’m referring to. And he just, why is that so funny?

[00:47:38] Preston Pysh: And I said, well, I mean, if it’s 4%, like your prices are going to be drastically different than what you think they are today. And if you’re buying, you know, a hundred units of X, Y, Z, like now you’re buying 50 units of X, Y, Z, if your inflation is. You know, that differential, you know, rough, very rough numbers.

[00:47:58] Preston Pysh: But yeah, I think that the whole defense industrial complex is very delusional as to like what the implications of the future money being and the lack of, you know, firepower that they were able to pull from, you know, pardon the pun. But that they were able to really kind of harness from the petrol dollar system is very, very, we’re not even getting into the fact that a lot of the, the raw materials and stuff are coming from countries that aren’t your best friend.

[00:48:24] Natalie Brunell: Exactly. I really want to give credit to Luke Gromen because Luke has really helped me connect the dots along with you about all of this. And how we kind of think of the U.S. dollars backed by the U.S. military. Well, what’s the U.S. military backed by, right? Because we rely so much now. On China and other countries when it comes to the actual stuff, the real goods that make the equipment that we need.

[00:48:50] Natalie Brunell: And I love that he’s been highlighting, you know, our lack of leverage now in critical minerals and rare earth elements that go into every EV and cell phone and military equipment, radar systems. Fighter jets, missiles. Like we are in a position, and I didn’t realize this until reading his newsletter where we can’t go to war, we can’t project the conventional power that we once did because we’re going to deplete everything that we have in a matter of 10 days and we need years to build it back up.

[00:49:16] Natalie Brunell: And so what does actually back the dollar? Because it seems like. Our military, the industry that created all of those great things that once made us so powerful and so strong has been completely hollowed out and offshore. And we can’t just turn on a light switch and reverse 30 years of what we have done, offshoring everything, right?

[00:49:34] Natalie Brunell: We’ve financialized the economy and we spent $8 trillion on foreign conflicts that have led us nowhere, that have just inflated away the purchasing power of the average working class person. Meanwhile, China was focused on actually building up its industries and subsidizing workers to have skills like welding and electrical work and building up these industries and energy infrastructure.

[00:49:56] Natalie Brunell: So they’re now far ahead of us and they have a monopoly over refining rare earths and. I mean, it’s just like, I think the hubris from our political leaders on both sides is just absolutely insane, and that’s why I think we need more outlets that are down the middle, you know, really truly apolitical and a money that’s apolitical because both sides are just leading us into total chaos.

[00:50:16] Preston Pysh: 100% Natalie, the irony for me on the, and you’re right, Luke has been doing an amazing job highlighting this, but it goes back to this analogy that you have in the book, which is this plane ticket. Everybody can understand this. Because everybody’s had it happen to them at the airport, right?

[00:50:32] Preston Pysh: Like, oh, they overbooked the flights, they promised more than what was there in physical reality, which is the number of seats on the plane when it comes to the rare earths and all of these raw materials that are the inputs too.

[00:50:47] Preston Pysh: And this is the important part. These are complex end items. If you think Department of Defense is building just basic trinkets. Like they’re building the most complex pieces of equipment, whether it’s an F 22 fighter or some type of, you know, complex type of artillery round or whatever, submarines. I mean, just think about the complexity of these end items.

[00:51:13] Preston Pysh: And when you take raw materials that you are already, you don’t have the seat on the plane in the raw material. Now think about the assembly of all the additional components that go into a complex end item and how they all have to be there. It’s almost like in order for the plane to take off, every single seat has to be filled.

[00:51:34] Preston Pysh: And if there’s one seat that’s not filled, and I know this is kind of the antithesis of, of the previous example, but when you’re dealing with a complex end item, you need all of the pieces and parts to be there to put it together or else the whole thing won’t work. And so you’re combining these two things together and it’s a little scary to be quite honest with you, where this is all going.

[00:51:55] Natalie Brunell: Well, truly, I mean, and now that I understand some of these more complex aspects of the shifts in our geopolitical environment and in our economy, really truly at the base layer as they try to print more money in order to finance these massive deficits, it’s like, if I didn’t understand Bitcoin, I would have very little hope, like so many people do.

[00:52:14] Natalie Brunell: I mean, you’ve mentioned it on my last show, right? Where we’re moving with artificial intelligence, displacing more and more jobs. People not really having the mental capacity or the skills to go back to work, to what? Put together these little widgets that are going to go into missiles.

[00:52:29] Natalie Brunell: Not to mention that those industries, we don’t have the regulatory like environment that any of those facilities and operations would be easily built here. We offshore literally everything. We’re like, go to other countries, produce it there, send it back to us. It’s like, okay, well now we’ve hollowed out our entire country.

[00:52:47] Natalie Brunell: I had a guest on who I’m going to be sharing our No Bertrand, do you know him? He’s a geopolitical analyst. Very, very popular. He talks about even just one of the critical minerals, gallium, how that’s like you’d extract a tiny bit of it out of an aluminum industry that we don’t have anymore because offshore all of our aluminum.

[00:53:05] Natalie Brunell: So we would’ve have to first rebuild all of our aluminum power and then we would get a tiny bit of gallium from it, which is needed for a bunch of different things. And it’s like, we don’t have any of this. You have to rebuild it over 20 years. And how are they going to do that? Obviously they’re going to have to print money, print, and they’re going to print to buy commodities and real goods, which means that U.S. treasuries actually aren’t worth anything. The commodities and the stuff is worth something. So you need Bitcoin to protect yourself.

[00:53:32] Preston Pysh: Natalie for the listener, and I don’t mean to embarrass you, but I’m going to embarrass you probably a little bit. But for people that don’t know Natalie personally, I can tell you like she’s the real deal. You are the real deal.

[00:53:43] Preston Pysh: Like, I’ll give you an example. This past week my wife ended up in the ER. And we were coordinating the show and whatnot, and she asked, Hey Preston, how’s things going? I said, oh, you know, my wife’s in the er and that was the end of it. And she was asking like how she was doing and I told her, she’s doing great.

[00:54:01] Preston Pysh: She’s back at the house and by the way, everything’s fine for the listener, but it was a week later and you know, these flowers show up to my house and you know, we got it. There was a card there. I hope my wife’s name, I hope you’re doing better. And, but that was it.

[00:54:17] Preston Pysh: And so we’re going around the neighborhood with all of our friends. We’re like, who sent the flowers? Because there wasn’t a name there and blah, blah, blah. And so it was like, for a week we were trying to figure out who these flowers were from, and lo and behold, it was Natalie Brunell that sent the flowers.

[00:54:33] Preston Pysh: And it just, you know what? For people that don’t know you, Natalie, I’ve known you for years now. This is just who you are. You are just a total giver. You’re somebody who’s always trying to do the right thing for everybody that’s out there. And it is an honor for me to call you a friend, and this book is phenomenal. Truly, it’s just phenomenal.

[00:54:54] Preston Pysh: And for anybody out there, like I’m telling you, if you have a family or a friend that’s even remotely curious about Bitcoin and want to understand the problem that’s plaguing the world right now. This book does it in spades.

[00:55:08] Preston Pysh: If you do buy the book and you enjoy it, I’m telling you, if you want to help Natalie out in any kind of way, the way you help her out is you leave reviews for these kind of things on Amazon and helps out a lot.

[00:55:18] Preston Pysh: She will not tell you that. I will tell you that, but Natalie, Bravo! Amazing job. Give people a handoff if they want to learn more about you or, whatever you want to say. But thank you for making time and coming on the show, and you hit a home run with the book.

[00:55:33] Natalie Brunell: Oh my gosh. Well, for Preston, thank you so much.

[00:55:35] Natalie Brunell: I love you and your family so, so, so much. You’re so, so, so kind. Thank you for welcoming me into the space. I remember when I met you in person at Saifedean’s dinner. Okay, guys, wait, A quick story. I went to that first Bitcoin conference. I didn’t know a soul. I got kicked out of every event that Paula and I tried to go into.

[00:55:53] Natalie Brunell: It was like, you’re not on the list. Okay. But I did pay for Saifedean Ammous’s dinner because I wanted to ask him to come on my show. And I met Preston Pysh. I still have his business card. He was with, you were with Russell, I believe Russell Okung.

[00:56:05] Preston Pysh: Yeah. The NFL player.

[00:56:07] Natalie Brunell: Yeah. And I just introduced myself and you said you would come on the podcast and so like it’s crazy to think of all that’s changed since then. But I just thank you for always being so kind to me. You’ve taught me so much and I really look up to you, not just as someone who’s so successful in this space, but also as the family man that you are. You have a beautiful family and thank you for the kind words about the book.

[00:56:28] Preston Pysh: Thank you, Natalie.

[00:56:29] Preston Pysh: Alright, well folks, you can find it on Amazon. Bitcoin is for Everyone.

[00:56:34] Preston Pysh: Natalie Brunell, thank you so much.

[00:56:36] Natalie Brunell: Thank you.

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