[00:02:27] Robert Leonard: To start off our conversation today, give us a little overview of how big the creator economy is and what the creator economy market is.

[00:02:37] Varun Balsara: For sure. I mean, maybe let’s start with what exactly is the creator economy or the passion economy? To summarize it in a few words, it’s basically an opportunity for anyone who is really interested in something, whether it’s a hobby or a personal project, to be rewarded by the market for pursuing that passion.

[00:02:59] Varun Balsara: It could be anything from monetizing teaching someone how to do origami to trading options or derivatives on the stock market. It’s a unique way of thinking about careers, side incomes, and the ability to pursue passions while getting paid and rewarded for it.

[00:03:17] Varun Balsara: As of 2022, the creator market size is estimated to be over $104 billion, more than double what it was in 2019. A study published by Adobe in August 2022 suggested that the creator economy has grown by over 165 million people globally in the last two years, which is a 119% increase. It’s a rapidly growing economy with lots of exciting activity happening in this space.

[00:03:44] Robert Leonard: How does somebody, let’s say they have a passion or something they think they would want to do online, but they just don’t know where to begin? How should they get started?

[00:03:56] Robert Leonard: Where should they get started?

[00:03:58] Varun Balsara: I think it’s important to set the context for what I believe is a perfect definition of a creator. I think a creator is anybody who has the ability to share their knowledge in a concise way. This can be done through a course, an outcome such as a tangible product or an art piece, or even a book. Anything that you can transform from your passion into something monetizable, where there is an exchange of value, qualifies you as a creator. The monetization aspect will be discussed later, but most creators start with a specific passion and then consider monetizing it.

[00:04:39] Varun Balsara: If we have to work backward to determine the best place to start, I have a framework called the “coach market fit” which can be applied to courses or expertise as well. It’s a derivative of the concept of product-market fit in startups. A product is said to have product-market fit when it aligns with the market it serves. Similarly, as a creator or expert, you begin by asking yourself what you truly love doing. It could be podcasting, interviewing, singing, dancing, teaching about stocks, finance, or property investing. The specific area doesn’t matter; what matters is identifying what makes you come alive. There may be multiple things.

[00:05:22] Varun Balsara: On the other hand, if you want to be strategic about it, you may want to work backward and determine if the specific creation you’re passionate about will also bring monetary value to your life. Many people desire side income or eventually want to transition fully into their side hustle. In this case, you start thinking about what the market really wants to learn from you or what is missing in the market that you can provide. You engage in primary research, which involves talking to your specific audience.

[00:05:58] Varun Balsara: So, if people want to learn property investing from you, and you have absolutely no experience in property investing, would people really want to learn from you? Probably not. In that case, I would start by asking people what they really want to know. What are their struggles? Where are they not focusing their energies? What specific outcomes or skill sets do they want to learn? Is there something lacking in the market?

[00:06:27] Varun Balsara: Once I have that information, I can understand what the coach market fit, course market fit, or any other market fit really looks like. It’s about finding the intersection between what I’m passionate about and what the market wants to learn or buy from me. That intersection is the sweet spot where I can effectively monetize my passion.

[00:06:50] Varun Balsara: So where do you start? It’s quite simple. Grab a piece of paper and write down what you’re passionate about. Then ask yourself about the different topics people have asked you to speak on, be a guest lecturer, or talk about on podcasts. Engage in conversations with those people and inquire about their struggles. Based on the insights gathered, create a product that serves those individuals. The ultimate validation is putting it out there and seeing if people buy it. If they do, then you’re likely onto something.

[00:07:26] Robert Leonard: What if someone doesn’t have a large social media following? What if they don’t have any social media presence at all, but they have this idea and they want to put it out online? How can someone with no prior social media experience or following effectively get their idea out there to try and monetize everything you were just talking about?

[00:07:50] Varun Balsara: Yeah, there are many different ways of doing it, and I think you might be underestimating how many followers you actually need to sell something online, or rather, overestimating it.

[00:08:02] Varun Balsara: We’ve worked with people, and we’ll delve into that in a bit, but we’ve seen individuals succeed with just a few hundred or a few thousand followers. You don’t have to reach millions to sell something. If you have absolutely no idea where to start, a great approach is to understand where your target audience hangs out.

[00:08:25] Varun Balsara: For instance, if you’re targeting professionals, the best place to start is on LinkedIn. You’ll want to create content that showcases your expertise and demonstrates that you know what you’re talking about. I don’t mean you have to post every day, but posting every other day can be effective.

[00:08:44] Varun Balsara: One of the best strategies is to stand on the shoulders of giants. When someone comes to me with the same concern, saying they have no idea where to begin and they lack a large audience, I ask them about their top three influencers in their field and where those influencers hang out.

[00:09:06] Varun Balsara: Once they identify that, I advise them to post value bombs on those influencers’ social media posts. By doing this, you’re adding value and getting recognized by industry leaders. Even if they don’t comment on your post, you still get exposure to their followers. If you’re sharing something truly valuable and passionate, people are likely to listen to you.

[00:09:29] Varun Balsara: This approach is a shortcut to growing your audience. The same principle applies to YouTube and Instagram, with a few nuances. It’s about starting with the community element and building a loyal fanbase of three to four or even five individuals who genuinely want to support you.

[00:09:48] Varun Balsara: And chances are, if you’ve lived long enough. What I mean by that is like if you’ve gone to school, if you’ve had genuine social connections with people, your WhatsApp phone book, your Facebook, you know, friend list is more than enough to start with. You can actually make thousands of dollars just by figuring out who you’re selling to, and the chances are that the person that you’re selling to is sitting right now in your phone book and you just don’t know about it.

[00:10:22] Varun Balsara: And so reaching out and rekindling old connections, talking to people and being open about, Hey, look, this is what I’m providing. This is the value I’m giving you. And then seeing whether people pay for that is just a great place to start.

[00:10:40] Robert Leonard: When it comes to social media, how often does someone need to be posting?

[00:10:46] Robert Leonard: Some people believe in quality over quantity, so you don’t have to post that much, but it just has to be really high quality. Other people, maybe Gary V would say something along the lines of “quantity is quality” or can be quality. So how do you think about this?

[00:11:06] Varun Balsara: So I think consistency, over anything else, really trumps it.

[00:11:10] Varun Balsara: Like there’s no guarantee that you can be qualitative or have quality posts every single time that you post. And on the flip side of it, if you just post stuff that’s very generic or cliched and you don’t have your own voice, no one’s really going to listen to you. And so the balance is up to you, how you want to strike it.

[00:11:36] Varun Balsara: But I would just say consistency. And when you don’t have a big audience, the best places to actually start are two best places. One is actually in the DMs. Like a lot of the people that succeed in the creative space have a great following, but a lot of them also, what you don’t probably know is that they actually sell a lot in the DMs.

[00:12:02] Varun Balsara: So coaches, experts, consultants that are doing seven figures, eight figures a year. What they do is they hire a lot of sales representatives that actually start messaging people online, and so the genuine connection that is built is actually in the DMs. That’s number one. Number two, if you don’t know what to post, just start by engaging with people in that specific industry.

[00:12:28] Varun Balsara: Just as an example, if you’re in the product space and you want to help people break into product management and you don’t have that much of an audience, you follow people in that same space who do have a great audience and build relationships with them. So you can start diverting, not diverting, but like speaking to people within their audience to say, “Hey, look, I exist.

[00:12:56] Varun Balsara: Why don’t you come and follow me and I will give you more information?” But equally, what’s interesting to note is the third thing that we are seeing consistently is people are moving away from being solely reliant on platforms. And what do I mean by this is people are making sure that they have their social presence just to show people that, “Hey, look, I exist, I’m legit.”

[00:13:23] Varun Balsara: But where the actual value add comes in is through getting and building your own email list. And there are tons of studies that show that a great, solid marketing list actually leads to higher conversions when you’re selling products. And this is more important than ever when it comes to dealing with the creator economy space.

[00:13:46] Varun Balsara: Because right now, tomorrow, any social media platform can change the way in which people are viewing your content and following you. An algorithm change can basically make your traction go way up or way down. And so what people are realizing is that while social media might give you that initial push, what’s really valuable is actually having an email list that I can own and call my own without having to rely on any other social media platform to drive traffic for me.

[00:14:20] Varun Balsara: In that process, you’re actually seeing a lot of people build their own email lists and send out newsletters, for example, on a very regular cadence. And that’s how they start building their audience.

[00:14:34] Robert Leonard: I know this has happened to me in the past. I think there are a lot of people who are like me, but they want to have everything done or perfect before they really launch. And I think I’ve gotten better at this over time. I’ve heard a lot of talks about how people say that you should be kind of embarrassed by your first version of your product or your website.

[00:15:02] Robert Leonard: So I think I’ve gotten better at this, but I know that there are a lot of people who struggle with this. They want to have everything done, they want to have everything built, they want it to be perfect before they actually launch. So how do you approach that? What advice or feedback do you have for people regarding this? Should they make sure everything’s done, ready to go, perfect before they launch?

[00:15:32] Robert Leonard: Or should they just see if they can get signups first and then build it after? Should they pre-sell? What do you think about this?

[00:15:42] Varun Balsara: Yeah. This is what we say all the time, right? Like “done is better than perfect.” It’s almost always the case, and here’s why. You know, there’s an age-old saying that says “build it and they will come.”

[00:15:57] Varun Balsara: And if you follow that advice, you are very likely to fail. And that’s equally true for most things you do, even in the startup space of building products. Let me give you a very interesting example. We had a creator once who had built a massive audience in a specific geography, and he suddenly decided to sell his course and his learnings from that community to a completely different geography.

[00:16:26] Varun Balsara: And he made absolutely zero sales. But when he refocused his efforts on selling to his own community, he sold out his course. So there’s something to be said about just going out there. Of course, knowing where you’re selling and who you’re selling to is important. But after you do that, don’t let it become a place where you procrastinate.

[00:16:50] Varun Balsara: Because very often, when we talk about this whole coach market fit thing, people will start saying, “Oh, you know, I’ve not really started to actually find that coach market fit. Let me do a little more research.” And so they almost use that as an excuse to procrastinate. What we say is, start selling first, right?

[00:17:13] Varun Balsara: Don’t even create everything. Have a general outline of something. Start selling and marketing it just to understand whether people are buying it. Hopefully, you are not someone who’s going to rip somebody off. You are going to deliver a great experience. But delivering a great experience is usually easier than selling and marketing for most people.

[00:17:36] Varun Balsara: So marketing and selling usually come first, and then building comes second. I know this is something that most people feel really uncomfortable about. But when you really understand it, what selling and marketing does is validate your offer. And if somebody is saying yes to paying you for that offer, then it’s your job to actually give them a great experience. And if you don’t, that’s on you. But when people start putting that faith in you, then you start realizing, “Okay, maybe there is something.” Let me give you a clear example. If you want to build a course, give yourself maybe four to five weeks, depending on different variables.

[00:18:20] Varun Balsara: Well, I wouldn’t say you have to launch a course in five weeks. You would have a general outline of what you want to teach them and the learning outcomes that someone would achieve upon completing your course. That should be enough to convince someone whether to enroll or not.

[00:18:40] Varun Balsara: Because the content and what you’re going to teach is what they’re going to do after they sign up to you. So you need to perfect the first process before you even start the second process. And that is why I always say like market and sell and then build because building the experience, actually you get a lot of insight when someone signs up because one of the things that you can start doing is start interviewing people.

[00:19:12] Varun Balsara: Hey, thanks for signing up. What do you like? What are you interest? What are you expecting to do? And then you can keep tweaking your actual content to then best serve the people that have actually given you their hard earned cash. 

[00:19:29] Robert Leonard: Going back to the idea of someone not being big on social media or not having a big following, how else should they market? What other sales funnels or marketing funnels could and should they use?

[00:19:44] Varun Balsara: So, in terms of being an absolute beginner, starting out with ads is usually one of the worst ways to begin. I’m quickly ruling that out. It’s an easy answer, but it’ll break the bank.

[00:19:58] Varun Balsara: Unless you’re willing to spend thousands of dollars on marketing through channels like Facebook and YouTube, I would strongly advise against it. What I am going to recommend is something a little more tedious, but it usually sets the tone: consistent posting. This is very important because as soon as you start reaching out to someone, people will want to know that you exist online and that you are legitimate.

[00:20:26] Varun Balsara: By presence, I don’t mean creating a website. I simply mean having a presence where your audience hangs out. For example, if you’re in the real estate industry and you find out that people are on Instagram or LinkedIn, and let’s say it’s real estate for C-Suite executives, most of the time they’re probably going to be on LinkedIn. So, if you’ve identified that, try to build a persona on LinkedIn.

[00:20:54] Varun Balsara: Again, you don’t have to have thousands of followers. A few hundred is great to start with. But once you’ve accomplished that, then start engaging by commenting where industry experts hang out. Comment on their posts and share their content. Often, those who comment on posts are the ones who are highly engaged with that specific topic, so you can begin building relationships.

[00:21:19] Varun Balsara: Within the LinkedIn ecosystem, for example, reach out with a direct message (DM) and genuinely get to know that person. Build a relationship and rapport with them. Then, you can say, “Hey, look, this is what I’m planning to do. Are you interested?” This approach actually leads to many more sales. In fact, for the majority of our first year in business, this is how we sold what we’re building today.

[00:21:48] Varun Balsara: And its relationship was permission-based marketing right at the very outset. So, like, that really is beneficial. Yes, it takes time. It’s a volume game, but it does set you up for great success because you start building your audience over time like that. So it is a bit of working hard, but at the same time, it actually sets you up.

[00:22:12] Varun Balsara: Once that is done, of course, there are different things that you can do. Then there are three major funnels that you can use, just to clarify what that means for your audience. A funnel is basically where people come in, they usually get something for free, and then it’s almost like they’re going through a journey with you to buy a specific product.

[00:22:38] Varun Balsara: Usually, the end outcome of a funnel is a purchase. So typically, what people do to get someone to sign up for their emails, for example, is to give them a freebie or a free resource. And once that is done, there are emails that are triggered to send out value-driven emails. Then there’s a course launch and more value-driven emails, followed by the launch of another product.

[00:23:05] Varun Balsara: That’s how a lead magnet usually functions. Another way, if you start developing and making revenue for your creator business, is to use a webinar funnel, which works even better. We’ve seen the webinar funnel work great because you basically send leads, which are people interested in you.

[00:23:24] Varun Balsara: To do this, you can either run a Facebook ad or build an audience and promote the webinar. You get them onto a webinar, provide them with value, and towards the end, you present your product or offer and ask if they would be interested. If you do a good job, most of the time people end up paying you on the spot or they book a call, and then you can further sell them during the call. This approach works really well for coaching and consulting services.

[00:24:00] Varun Balsara: The final option is similar to a webinar, but it’s more like a prerecorded webinar. We call it the VSL funnel, which stands for video sales script. People come in, see what you have to offer, then book a call with you. During the call, you explain the product, listen to what they have to say, and provide your services or solution as a way to address their problem. This often leads to a sale.

[00:24:30] Varun Balsara: So these are a couple of methods you can potentially try out. However, I would always start with messaging because it is the most effective way to genuinely create those first five to ten clients who become your true fans.

[00:24:46] Varun Balsara: Cause guess what? If you do a great job with the first five or 10 people that sign up to whatever you’re doing, they’re going to be your most avid fans who will then shout about you and get you more customers. And so, don’t skip that part. And you know, many people get lazy with it, but the ones that actually succeed have done a really great job at having that genuine connection with people.

[00:25:16] Robert Leonard: How do you balance giving away content for free versus the content that you monetize? Should you be giving away everything for free? And if you do that, then how do you monetize? Like, let’s say you have an online course. How do you balance what to give away for free and what to put in the course behind a paywall?

[00:25:40] Robert Leonard: Is it just different packaging? How do you think about that?

[00:25:44] Varun Balsara: This is a lovely question. Just like we spoke about course market fit or coach market fit, there’s also content market fit. And you’re right, you don’t want to lose out on people by talking about fairly generic stuff. Because if you don’t have a voice, then you’re never really going to attract the right kinds of people.

[00:26:08] Varun Balsara: So if you do decide that content is the way to go and that you’re going to develop a personal brand online, one of the key things to start with is figuring out what you want to talk about. Consider what is already being spoken about and what people really want to hear. Then find gaps within those areas and fill them up with valuable content.

[00:26:34] Varun Balsara: I wouldn’t worry too much about giving away valuable content for free. Let’s face it, when you start chatting with ChatGPT, a lot of the content that comes out of there is pretty valuable stuff. People aren’t really paying for content anymore because that’s almost like a thing of the past.

[00:26:54] Varun Balsara: What people are paying for is for you to help them out and for you to fast track their journey through your experience. So what people really pay for is accountability. They pay for the ability to have a conversation with you and to execute, not necessarily for content.

[00:27:14] Varun Balsara: So I wouldn’t worry too much about giving valuable content that you’re going to teach in the course. Most of the best creators, course creators, and coaches give all that information for free. You can find it online for free. But why do they still do very well? Because, firstly, they’ve already developed trust by providing valuable content for free that has helped people.

[00:27:40] Varun Balsara: And the next thing is, while I can give you that content, I don’t think, or I don’t guarantee that you’re going to actually implement that. And so then what you really pay for then is the implementation, execution, and accountability. I hope that sort of clarifies it. 

[00:27:54] Robert Leonard: How should creators, online content creators today, be using ChatGPT to benefit them?

[00:28:00] Robert Leonard: And on the other side, how could it negatively affect or potentially disrupt the industry of online content creators?

[00:28:07] Varun Balsara: I think a lot of people today are getting scared of ChatGPT, and there’s almost this existential crisis, saying, “Oh my God, ChatGPT is going to ruin me.”

[00:28:18] Varun Balsara: The thing is, ChatGPT is lowering the barrier for somebody to learn something, which actually is great news for creators. Because even if I give you content, I can only charge you a maximum of maybe a hundred dollars if it’s extremely valuable content. But where the actual money lies, as I mentioned earlier, is when I can help you implement that content in the context of your life.

[00:28:46] Varun Balsara: And that usually happens when you sit in front of a coach and have a one-on-one session or in a group where you have a community, which can’t really be replicated by ChatGPT. So I would almost encourage everybody who’s probably not using ChatGPT to start using it because it helps you push content out faster. And if you know how to use prompts in a smart way, there are tons of ways in which you can leverage ChatGPT to get valuable content out there.

[00:29:20] Varun Balsara: Obviously, make it your own, do your own research, and all of that. But leveraging it as a tool can save you time. You can use it to write newsletters, create content, write scripts for your videos, and even craft copy for your emails that you send out in your newsletters. This means you’re saving time that can now be spent on higher leverage activities, which can bring you more revenue, such as coaching, consulting, and forming a community. These high leverage activities, which AI, at least for now, can’t really do.

[00:29:56] Varun Balsara: You’re bringing people together, and that is very powerful. Accountability is powerful. Being able to create in a space with other people and receive valuable feedback is super helpful. And because the feedback is not just a text-based chatbot telling me what to do, but it also encompasses social culture, it becomes even more valuable.

[00:30:18] Varun Balsara: For example, if you participate in a course with participants from around the world, you not only benefit from the guidance but also gain insights from their unique experiences. This kind of interaction is difficult to replicate. So, yes, use ChatGPT because it helps you complete lower leverage tasks, but it also frees up time for higher leverage tasks that can bring in more revenue to your business.

[00:30:46] Robert Leonard: What are some of the most popular, efficient, and successful prompts that you think could be applicable for someone just starting out?

[00:30:54] Varun Balsara: One thing I’ve really realized is the ability for Chat GPT to become like your personal, like, I don’t know, secretary. It’s a super good way to do that. Like, so if you characterize it as just that, you then also need to realize that it will do exactly what you tell it and know more or no less.

[00:31:18] Varun Balsara: And so what that means is if you leave anything up for interpretation, you’re going to get a super, super generic response. So, something that I love to do is I love to study styles of people that are writing online on, let’s just say, LinkedIn. So if I love a LinkedIn creator, I will basically take that post and I will ask Chat GPT to analyze the post and say, “What did this post do really well?”

[00:31:49] Varun Balsara: It’ll tell me whatever. Right now I’ve got Chat GPT to affirm what it needs to do. The next prompt that I write is, “Hey, I’ve written this specific post. Can you now maybe emulate a similar style, based on your feedback above, and rewrite this post for me?” Now, what you’ve done is you’ve contextualized what Chat GPT needs to do, and you give it a very specific prompt of what you then need to do.

[00:32:20] Varun Balsara: If you start thinking of using GPT as a series of prompts, i.e., the prompts being the instructions, then what you’re really seeing is a very nicely, very, very fast targeted personal assistant, just executing tasks. It doesn’t really have a mind of its own. It will not understand stuff that intensely. But if you break it down into the smallest possible component and tell it exactly what it needs to do, you will get a very good outcome.

[00:32:51] Varun Balsara: But if you say, “Write me a post on the five things you should be doing when you’re podcasting,” you’re going to get a very generic response. Other than just Chat GPT.

[00:33:04] Robert Leonard: What other tools, resources, or tips do you have for online content creators to become more efficient and productive?

[00:33:11] Varun Balsara: Yeah, I mean, we could chat about GPT in a whole ‘nother podcast and happy to do that.

[00:33:18] Varun Balsara: But one thing that would be super cool to do is, and I’ve only started experimenting with this recently, is for example, when you want to write content, you almost make Chat GPT interrogate itself. Let’s just say I tell Chat GPT to write me a post, and I say, “Now critique your own post.” It’s going to give you a critique of that post.

[00:33:44] Varun Balsara: And then you say, “Hey, use your critique to rewrite me a better post.” And you keep going back and forth. By the third or fourth iteration, you have a really, really good post or a newsletter. And then very specific prompts would be really interesting to start trying to use. And like, there’s a lot of information out there online, and I know it can get very overwhelming, but just break it down into first principles.

[00:34:15] Varun Balsara: If you’re talking to, like, a five-year-old child about certain instructions, how would you write or how would you talk to them? You almost want to use Chat GPT in a similar way, like instructionally. It’s still very limited. It doesn’t, it cannot infer what you are thinking. It can only infer what you write.

[00:34:37] Varun Balsara: And if you write more specifically, you usually get a great outcome. So, for example, if you want to write a really detailed comment on an influencer you really like, you can put what you think you should be writing and then say, “Hey, Chat GPT, can you make this comment a little snappier or a little more hilarious or a little more engaging, given what you think that person’s going to like?”

[00:35:06] Varun Balsara: And it’ll rewrite that for you. And then if you like it, use it. If you don’t like it, you can always change it. But that self-interrogation part, I think, was a game changer for me because you’re almost getting Chat to talk to itself and then keep doing it. So one of the things that we do at Let’s Level Up, one of the key things that we’re actually building, and it’s in the works, is you can now start creating your entire course content with a few clicks, as if you’re a property investor, right?

[00:35:45] Varun Balsara: What you do is you give the system a prompt. And you say, “Okay, I’m going to create a course on this. These are some of the topics I want to include.” And then I hit enter, and it’ll create an entire course outline with information within that course. And so what you’re doing then is you’re going into that course and just changing a few things that you don’t think might be working or not.

[00:36:15] Varun Balsara: And so now what our system has done is it’s fast-tracked the journey for an individual from “I don’t know what to do,” which I call the Cold Start problem, to “Okay, I have something to work with.” And that something to work with can then start becoming a lot more intricate and detailed. And so I guess the last way you can actually use Chat GPT, of course, if you’re not using a tool like ours, is just starting with a prompt.

[00:36:48] Varun Balsara: So say, “Hey, I’m thinking of writing a post on X, Y, and Z. Can you maybe tell me what the structure of a blog on LinkedIn or a blog on Medium or a blog on CK looks like?” It’ll give you the points, and then if you want to delve deeper into a few points, you can ask Chat GPT, “Can you double click on it?”

[00:37:15] Varun Balsara: And so by the end of it, you have all the information, Chat GPT has understood all the information. And then you’re like, “Okay, so now can you write me an entire post?” And so there you have it.

[00:37:30] Robert Leonard: You mentioned earlier in our conversation that consistency is such an important factor. How long do you think someone needs to be consistent, or how reasonable? What’s a reasonable timeline, do you think, for someone just starting out to build a community and, most importantly, really get their first sale, their first dollar in their online content creation business?

[00:37:54] Varun Balsara: This is an interesting question ‘cuz there’s no right answer, and usually it’s the various ways in which you can take this.

[00:38:03] Varun Balsara: And I say that because let’s just say you are a 50+ author, uh, who’s done really well for themselves but does not use LinkedIn very often or Twitter, and now wants to get into, you know, you’re fairly elderly, and so you don’t have that kind of knowledge of how to use social media. But the fact is you are a very successful individual, and that a lot of people already follow you because they’ve read their books.

[00:38:34] Varun Balsara: Now, if they come online on LinkedIn or Twitter, it’s a short period of time if they play their cards right to be able to then gain a massive following and then sell digital products. On the other hand, if you are relatively younger and you have nothing to show behind your name as in like societal standards, show behind your name, and you have nothing, sort of no career really backing you and stuff like that.

[00:39:05] Varun Balsara: It might become a little more difficult in terms of a timeframe to actually then start selling, but even then, we’re seeing 18-year-olds, 19-year-olds, 16-year-olds are doing very well for themselves by selling digital products online, and I mean like educational products as well. It again depends on like how quickly or able to figure out that creator-market fit, which is like, who am I, who’s my audience?

[00:39:32] Varun Balsara: What’s the best way to actually segment that audience and then narrow it down very specifically? And then, can I start consistently building an audience around it or a community around it where people are actually following what I have to do? And can I build that meaningful connection with somebody or a few people to start off with?

[00:39:56] Varun Balsara: And, sort of, the faster you get to that point, the faster it will be. But there are no overnight successes. People have built audiences over time. Some people do it faster than others because they probably have a little more clarity, and they’ve probably done a lot of groundwork without actually knowing about it.

[00:40:18] Varun Balsara: Quick example: if you are a struggling actor and you suddenly have a Netflix series, your Instagram account, if the Netflix series is great, is going to blow up. But you have put in a lot of effort to actually get to that point. You’ve done what it takes, right? And so, very often in the content game, even in the creator game, you start seeing the creator really go slowly.

[00:40:46] Varun Balsara: And then there’s something that they do, their content gets shared, they sort of innovate on a few strategies, and then you see them exponentially explode. It’s a lot like podcasting, right? Like your first 10 episodes are probably going to fail. And then you sort of see that, “Oh my God, people are listening to me.”

[00:41:09] Varun Balsara: “Oh gosh. Like I’m now hitting those numbers, right?” Like that’s the same thing that happened to me. Like I never thought I’d get into an Apple top 20. My podcast would get into an Apple top 20 chart. But then that consistency over time and just having that love for the game, next thing you know, you have a notification saying, “Hey, you’re in the Apple dot penny charts.”

[00:41:37] Varun Balsara: I’m like, so it’s those small things that really, really, you know, it’s those small moments in time, the small steps that you take that, if you zoom out over a period of time, you see so much growth these days.

[00:41:54] Robert Leonard: So many different industries, topics are crowded and they’re saturated. So how does someone just getting in, how do they stand out from the crowd?

[00:42:04] Robert Leonard: What do they do to really establish themselves in this, in their chosen industry when there are already so many established creators, maybe in their field?

[00:42:14] Varun Balsara: So, this actually ties in a lot with what we’ve been speaking about earlier. One is the coach-market fit, right? Like really figuring out who you are, what you are passionate about, and the best ways to do that.

[00:42:30] Varun Balsara: As I mentioned, just to quickly recap, go and figure out where you are being invited, who you’re talking to, what do people really ask for advice from you on. And then the market, which is what is out there in that space that you’re really interested in, and like, can you do something better or something very unique?

[00:42:53] Varun Balsara: And that better and unique could actually start off by being marginally better as well. You know, most of the time people keep thinking about it as, “I have to do 10x better,” but that 10x is an iteration game. If you don’t start now by being incrementally better, you’re never going to get to 10x.

[00:43:15] Varun Balsara: And that’s the most frustrating part of talking to someone who has that sort, almost chained by that thought, is like, “Oh, I’m not 10x better than someone. Why would someone come to me?” Well, you have to start somewhere. So just pick a lane and start, and then you can pivot along the way. But if you don’t start, you’re never going to know what’s going to actually happen.

[00:43:43] Varun Balsara: So just pick a lane and start. Of course, do the groundwork and then talk. Talk to as many people as you possibly can in your specific niche. So if you want to get into property investing, and if you have, say, 10 years in the space and there’s an absolute newbie, you have 10 years’ worth of experience that you can showcase, and most likely that newbie is probably in your network.

[00:44:12] Varun Balsara: Your friend knows somebody, your mom knows somebody, your family friend knows somebody, and so you start with your phone book, right? And that’s how you start getting that first, second client. Your testimonials will stack up. You start getting more referrals if you’re doing a good job. If you’re not doing a good job, and if you have nothing to sell, then I would really question whether you’re on the right track. But given that you have all of this in place, you can then start moving on and trying to find that complete differentiator.

[00:44:51] Varun Balsara: Saturation is also a very interesting concept because a lot of the time we have this limiting belief that we aren’t good enough or that there are too many people in this space. But the truth of the matter is people are coming to you for you. And I love to say this because it’s what I call as your unique, you.

[00:45:16] Varun Balsara: What is that skill set? What is that? And it could be very simple things, right? And there’s another concept called the feature, not a bug, which is all the bugs that you think are in your body. I have a very ridiculous accent. I look a funny way. I talk a funny way. I have an uncomfortable giggle. I laugh in a particular way.

[00:45:42] Varun Balsara: Those are what you perceive as bugs, but that can actually be huge features for somebody else. So when somebody is listening to you and they go, “Oh my God, I love that accent,” it’s like, “Wow, okay.” So you’re actually building a niche around something that’s unique to you and nobody can actually copy you again.

[00:46:04] Varun Balsara: You’ll never find this out unless you have a very specific, not even specific, but as long as you start doing stuff, you automatically start knowing what’s working and what’s not. And the last thing I think is just having a contrarian perspective. I call it the seep, which is the contrarian point of view, which is essentially, can I take a topic that I truly believe in and do I have something to actually talk about?

[00:46:35] Varun Balsara: I, which most people will fight me on, but I can substantially validate. So just an example, my contrarian point of view is you should start marketing and selling before you actually start making your course or your coaching program. Now, most people are going to say, “That’s complete BS, and you don’t know what you’re talking about.”

[00:46:58] Varun Balsara: But then I can pull out tons and tons of examples, and I can give myself, and I can back it up with revenue figures to show why that works and why that actually leads to a great student outcome. I use this in my marketing methods, and now this will obviously piss a few people off. But what this is doing is it’s also getting me people that actually really like me.

[00:47:27] Varun Balsara: So, in being different, but not for the heck of it, but like it’s not a hot take. It’s a genuinely different contrarian viewpoint. Don’t be contrarian if you don’t have anything contrarian to say, but figure out what that unique perspective is, and that is what people come to you for. So when people come and say, “Varon, can you help me out?”

[00:47:53] Varun Balsara: They get that I do this, it resonated with them, and now they want to learn. Rather than just going vanilla and saying what everybody in the industry is saying, ’cause I’m pretty sure everybody has a contrarian viewpoint. They’re just probably scared to speak about it. So hone in on that, ’cause that definitely becomes a differentiator.

[00:48:16] Robert Leonard: From all the people you’ve worked with, when someone comes to you and says that they’re not really making progress or not hitting the goals that they want, what are typically the biggest reasons why they aren’t getting as far ahead as they maybe should be or want to be?

[00:48:29] Varun Balsara: Honestly, two things. One is the mindset. People leave so much money on the table, and it’s sad because they’re like, “Oh my God, I’m not pricing it too high,” when in reality they’re actually pricing it too low. There’s a lot of mindset around charging people being a bad thing, and that’s one of the biggest limiting beliefs people have. So, a lot of the times, it’s a mindset shift that we need to create with people.

[00:49:01] Varun Balsara: The second thing is just a lack of consistency. You know what you need to do, and you’ve seen initial results, but now you’ve just become complacent because you think the machine is going to work for you. But guess what? You still have to put in the work. So, if you’re not doing those two things, most likely you’re going to hit a plateau.

[00:49:27] Varun Balsara: Consistently, this is what we’ve seen with people who struggle.

[00:49:31] Varun Balsara: The third thing is they will do all of this. They’ll get to a point where they’re doing really well, making five or 10K in monthly revenue, and then they’ll say, “Oh my God, I can’t handle the demand.” That’s when it comes to the systems and scaling of the systems. How do I put the right systems in place so that I’m not bothered about whether the backend technology is working, whether this is working, whether that’s working, and how do I consistently scale my coaching business or whatever my creator business is without the headache of technology?

[00:50:10] Robert Leonard: As we get towards wrapping up, tell us a bit about your own successful entrepreneurial journey. Tell us about your story and some of the top tips, advice, lessons that you’ve learned throughout your success, building your own businesses. 

[00:50:24] Varun Balsara: I think maybe starting off with, like what I said earlier, it goes for the creative space as well, done is always better than perfect in most cases.

[00:50:35] Varun Balsara: Of course, for some cases, it just doesn’t apply. So, like getting out there and just doing it and seeing what happens usually is a great way to start. I know most people say, like, do a ton of research and stuff like that, but research and all happen along the way. The best second, uh, the best validation whether your startup, your product is working is not usually a waitlist, but if someone can actually pay you for what you are providing.

[00:51:09] Varun Balsara: So if they can lend that hard-earned cash to you, uh, that’s usually a proven metric for, okay, well, you’re probably onto something. So I guess the third thing would probably be focusing a lot on the consumer and the customer more than all the noise that’s out there. Like, you’re going to get a ton of advice, and that’s great.

[00:51:33] Varun Balsara: You can say thank you to it, but you don’t have to listen to everything that people say. Just focusing on like, is the customer benefiting? Am I adding a lot of value to my audience? And obsessing manically about that is usually when you build great businesses. And I think putting that customer first is a very cliche thing, but more often than not, you’ll see most people don’t do it, and that’s why they struggle. And yeah, I think both would be falling in love with the problem, not necessarily the solution.

[00:52:11] Varun Balsara: So most people say, you know, don’t get too attached to the solution. I say get attached, but to the problem. Because your solution is a method to solve a problem. It usually may not be, in the first instance, that specific. So like, be adaptable to pivoting as it comes. But yeah, genuinely love the problem because that love for the problem will result one fine day in a great product.

[00:52:39] Varun Balsara: And if not, then you know that probably it’s not a problem that you think is worth solving, and that’s also okay. And I guess the last thing is, don’t take advice from someone who hasn’t been in your place. Just as an example, right? Like if somebody tells you to do something and they’re not really there yet, just ask yourself whether that advice makes sense because they haven’t gone through it. So what they’re probably doing is they’re probably stuck in an echo chamber and just rattling advice that they have heard without actually going through it themselves. And fundamentally, do you want to take advice from someone like that?

[00:53:24] Varun Balsara: Or do you want to take advice from someone who’s a little ahead of you in the journey, who has gone through everything you’ve gone through, right? That’s what actually makes coaching and having a coach to help you out really, really a game-changer. Because, yeah, you’re paying them money, but you’re paying them money to help you fast-track learning and your learning curves.

[00:53:50] Varun Balsara: So, pay money if it means that you’re actually getting that help in fast-tracking, and make sure you spend it on someone who has actually been there, done that, rather than selling you some fairytale.

[00:54:04] Robert Leonard: Varun, thanks again for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. I know your time is super valuable, so I appreciate you taking time out of your day to join me here on the show.

[00:54:18] Robert Leonard: For anyone listening who wants to connect with you, learn more about what you’ve got going on, and learn from your resources, where is the best place for them to go? Where do you want people to find you?

[00:54:34] Varun Balsara: Sure. So you can always reach out to me on LinkedIn, and I can share the link with you. It’s Varun Balsara, V A R U N B A L S A R A.

[00:54:47] Varun Balsara: You can email me at Varun@letslevelup.io. And for a little more on what we do, we help online creators, which are typically coaches and consultants, scale their learning academies online. We provide the technology and one-on-one support and tools to help you get there. We’re a full-stack solution that helps you build different courses.

[00:55:09] Varun Balsara: Whether it’s pre-recorded courses, coaching programs, or one-on-one programs, we create the entire sales funnel and backend tooling kits. This way, you don’t have to worry about admin, logistics, and all of that. We streamline the entire process for you into one tool, replacing 10+ other tools. You can check that out if you’re interested at letslevelup.io.

[00:55:32] Robert Leonard: Awesome! I will be sure to put all of that in the show notes. As always, for anybody interested in connecting with Varun, you can find those links below in the show notes on your favorite podcast player or at theinvestorspodcast.com. Thanks again, Varun!

[00:55:49] Varun Balsara: It’s been a pleasure.

[00:55:51] Robert Leonard: All right, guys, that’s all I had for this week’s episode of Millennial Investing, I’ll see you again next week. 

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